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Rubber roller will apply 8.3?

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Qualmx, Jan 15, 2019.

  1. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Hello to all
    I have a question, please give some advise
    My jobs are to receive rollers from the client and what I do is to apply rubber of certain thickness.
    Rollers are from steel industry.
    I have a special process to have the proper rubber, by applying some technique and formulas to the raw plastics.
    The specs. from client are just diameter and rubber hardness.
    The 8.3 will be applicable to my work shop?
    Design and development or partial?
    Thanks
     
  2. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Good day @Qualmx
    The question is who controls the design/drawing ? Can your organization change the product design (including the input material
    /component specifications), or, if your organization wants to change design/specification does your organization need to request your customer to do it?
     
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  3. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Thanks John
    I have the control of my
    Rubber process which is used for the rollers .the customer only ask keep diameters and hardness .
    If customer needs different hardness, I will change my rubber component
    That is under my control, customer is trusting in my product .
    I just deliver the rollers covered. I receive the steel rollers from customer.
    Thanks
     
  4. Miner

    Miner Moderator Staff Member

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    IMO you have design and development of the rubber formulation as well as the process for bonding the rubber to the steel cores while the customer has design responsibility for the final product. I have past experience in a similar product (conditioner rollers for hay in agricultural applications). In our case, we also had design control for the chevron design.
     

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  5. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    So, if I understand correctly the customer does not specify the rubber compound. i.e. Your organization can change the material inputs (both material and ratio of the material) because the customer specs neither (i.e. the customer ONLY prescribes "rubber" and "how hard" . )

    If that is the case then I assume you/your organization WANTS (needs?) to take design responsibility and apply the requirements of 8.3 .

    For example, what if your product is the correct hardness, but does not work in the application? ...or is the right hardness but the life expectancy deteriorates? If the customer is not dictating the input materials and compound requirements, then then your organization has (intentionally or not) become design responsible and the onus (appears based on my understanding) is on your organization to ensure the material passes design validation, etc..etc…

    If you do change, I assume your organization identifies the change point and must get pre-approval from the customer to ship the changed product. Is this assumption correct?
     
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  6. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Yesb
     
  7. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Yes, is how you say.
    The components of my product are defined by me, which Includes , select the raw material, to mix some chemicals with certain formulations.
    So, then I'll have to apply design, how I design the rubber, which finally is my product.
    Thanks.
    But doing an simple question, when or what strictly have to be design?
    For example in this case, Rubber is not defined by customer, is defined by me, ok, and rubber is an important part of the rollers.
    But imagine other case, I install (weld) small handlers made of steel wire in steel boxes I receive from customer.(20x18x20 inches)
    Handlers are very small, 4 inches long x 3 inch height, 0.5 diameter, even if is a simple product, in fact no special design and calculation are made because are not necessary.
    The control of handlers are mine, in this case will also apply 8.3?
    Because is a simple process, is it really applicable?
    Thanks
     
  8. Miner

    Miner Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, it would still apply. However, since the process is simple, the design process may be scaled down accordingly provided you still meet the intent of the standard.
     
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  9. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    I respectfully disagree. In the example given, We are not discussing IATF, wherein, the process design can not be exempted (although obviously the other portions of 9001 apply including process requirements.

    Specific only to the example given (i.e. weld install of a product design controlled by and provided by the customer) an exemption from 8.3 is indeed appropriate.
     
  10. Miner

    Miner Moderator Staff Member

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    The OP stated that he has control of the handlers. The customer only provides the baskets. The customer has design responsibility for the basket sub-assembly, but the OP's organization selects (i.e., designs) the handlers, the process for securing the handlers to the basket, etc. Granted that it is a simple basic design process, but it is a design process.
     
  11. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Good day @Miner

    When you state "...it is a 'design process' ", are you referring to the process design? (i.e the OP comment "install (weld)..." ...or are you referring to product design? (which is what I believe the OP to be speaking of , ...
    [e.g.. "...components of my product are defined by me, ...how I design the rubber, which finally is my product."] )

    Specific to the example..."I install (weld) small handlers made of steel wire in steel boxes I receive from customer"...(i.e. no PRODUCT design), there is no reason that 8.3 (within the context of ISO 9001) can not be exempted.
     
  12. Miner

    Miner Moderator Staff Member

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    I am referring to the process for designing the product, which consists of a customer supplied basket and handles which the OP must either design and fabricate or select from a catalog (also design) and then secure to the basket by weld or fastener (also design), etc.
     
  13. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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  14. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Good day @Miner . One of us is certainly misunderstanding the OP second "...but imagine other case..." example, which is as follows...

    But imagine other case, I install (weld) small handlers made of steel wire in steel boxes I receive from customer.(20x18x20 inches)
    Handlers are very small, 4 inches long x 3 inch height, 0.5 diameter, even if is a simple product, in fact no special design and calculation are made because are not necessary.
    The control of handlers are mine, in this case will also apply 8.3?

    It seems quite clear to me that in this specific example, @Qualmx is simply welding/installing product controlled by and received from the customer. In this specific example only, 8.3 may be exempted.
     
  15. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    @Qualmx

    Can you please elaborate on what you mean by the comment "...control of handlers are mine...." ? Do you control the sourcing of them? The installation of them? The design of them? ...etc..etc...
     
  16. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Y.
    Thanks, as I said, handlers are provided by me, totally.
    I manufacture them also the installation (welded)
    Scope:
    -Customer only provides boxes and ask to fabricate and install handlers.
    -On my side, to buy the raw material (wire rods 6 meters long), once received, is inspected,
    is cut in several pieces to fabricate the handlers, the pieces of wire rods are bent to give the "U" shape, for
    this, the supervisor draws a simple sketch to be taken as a guide, finally are welded to boxes.
    Process welding is inspected by the quality inspector.
    Thanks
     
  17. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @Qualmx . So, you PROVIDE the "handlers". What we need to know is who controls the drawing (design) of the "handlers" ?
     
  18. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Hi John
    I have the control, but in fact is a simple sketch, showing general dimensions.
    In any case, if the product provided is as small a simple, do we have to apply 8.3?
    Really activities are just to follow the sketch, nothing of tasks of design and development.
    Thanks
     
  19. Miner

    Miner Moderator Staff Member

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    As simple as that is, it is design.
     
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  20. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    If your organization dictates the specs of the product, 8.3 applies. If the customer dictates the specs., 8.3 does not. It’s that simple.
     
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