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Missed a change to a delivery schedule? What clause?

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by ISO9001TD, Dec 4, 2019.

  1. ISO9001TD

    ISO9001TD New Member

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    If someone misses a change to a delivery schedule, and we initiate corrective action, what clause can we cite as being in nonconformance? I was thinking 8.5.6, control of changes?
     
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Welcome!

    Why do you feel the need to initiate corrective action?
     
  3. ISO9001TD

    ISO9001TD New Member

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    We dont want people to miss any changes in delivery schedules. Basically we are trying to prevent it from happening again. To correct, what clause in the standard can I cite?
     
  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    How many misses were there? One? In how many?
     
  5. ISO9001TD

    ISO9001TD New Member

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    There have been a few. Each one has cost us $ and business.
     
  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    So, where in the process (not the standard) was the problem caused? Did you audit the process(es) for handling changes to delivery commitments? You see, there are many places in the standard which may relate to the reason for a change being missed and, to be helpful to management, citing a clause of the stana=dard matters less than nudging them towards the root cause, in your QMS. Management don't know ISO. They (should) care about process. If they don't, quoting ISO will be even less relevant. Take care of the process first, ISO will take care of itself...
     
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  7. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Technically none. Missing a delivery schedule is a form of a nonconforming output. The standard recognizes that there is no perfect system and organizations, despite of the controls in place, could incur nonconforming outputs. However, the standard requires that nonconforming outputs are to be controlled (see 8.7). Finding a clause for this will add little or no value to address the problem.
     
  8. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Good day @ISO9001TD ;

    You have received wise council from @tony s and @Andy Nichols ;

    However, if you are keen on relating to a specific cause you can also consider 8,2....

    * Clause 8.2.3.1 states , "...order requirements differing from those previously defined..."
    * e) "...order requirements differing from those previously expressed."
    * Clause 8.2.3.2 states, "...relevant persons are made aware of the changed requirements..."

    In other words, what is the established process flow (i.e. escalation process) when a customer order requirement is changed? Who are the responsible parties and how is the change information communicated?

    Hope this helps.

    Be well.
     
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  9. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Did you use ISO 9001:2015 as your audit criteria?
     
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  10. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Here's something further to consider when investigating, as an auditor (rather than simply find a clause to "hang" an issue on):

    Your process(es) should take care of how the organization handles changes to requirements, such as changes to schedules. The fact that "people missed" these changes suggests that, as an auditor a number of topics should have been investigated further to help management determine the root of the issue.

    Did you audit those processes for handling changes to customers' requirements?
     
  11. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    To me, a delivery schedule change is a "contract" change. Look at your contract review requirements. How are the "changes" being communicated to you? We have plenty of times in which we get the "new" date after it has passed. :)
     
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  12. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Agreed @Golfman25 . It is not just your opinion, it is indeed a contract change.

    8.2 is extremely comprehensive and speaks to...
    * feasibility review (prior to job award) = "8.2.1 b) handling enquiries...."
    * feasibility review (prior to job award) = "8.2.2 b) can meet the claims for the products and services..."
    and through and including...
    * order review (releases) = "8.2.1 b) ...contracts or orders, including changes.
     
  13. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Missing a delivery whether based from the original schedule or from a changed schedule, could be just a symptom that needs to be dealt with (see 8.7.1 or 10.2.1a.2). There could be no NC at all (e.g. caused by force majeure). However, if further probing determines that the immediate cause is attributed to the activities in handling orders, looking at the requirements in 8.2 can be considered.
     
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  14. Leonid

    Leonid Well-Known Member

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    Consider NC to 8.5.1a). "The organization shall implement production and service provision under controlled conditions. Controlled conditions shall include: a) the availability of documented information that defines: 1) the characteristics of ...the activities to be performed; 2) the results to be achieved".
    The change to a delivery schedule is surely documented. It describes the the new characteristics of ...the activities to be performed and new target dates for results to be achieved.
     
  15. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Clause 8.5.1a requires "availability of documented information that defines... products... services... activities... results...". Deviating from what was documented (i.e. missing a delivery schedule) is not a violation against this clause.
     
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  16. Leonid

    Leonid Well-Known Member

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    What was documented is controlled conditions. Organization failed to implement production under the controlled conditions.
     
  17. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    There's zero evidence of that.
     
  18. Leonid

    Leonid Well-Known Member

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    Organization failed to implement production under the controlled conditions. The controlled conditions are the changed delivery schedule. 100% evidence.
     

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