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Is it possible to lower the impact?

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Qualmx, Mar 10, 2018.

  1. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Hello all
    In the cases of risks.
    I know it is possible to lower the probability of a risk.
    But is it possible to also lower the impact?

    Could someone provide a pair of examples where impact is lowered?
    I'm referring when risk is calculated PxI
    Thanks
     
  2. Miner

    Miner Moderator Staff Member

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    There are two general ways to reduce impact:
    • Indemnification - In essence, this is similar to insurance where the impact is covered or shared by another entity.
    • Moving the impact to where it does less harm - This is the concept behind circuit breakers. Without a circuit breaker or fuse, a voltage surge or overload could result in a fire (high impact). With a fuse or circuit breaker, the fuse blows or circuit breaker trips (low impact). Heat shields used in space are another example of this concept.
     
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  3. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Miner

    But for a risk which is analyzed by using PxI
    Suppose Probability (1-5) and impact (1-5)
    Its a qualitative analysis.

    Risk analysis.

    Risk of not having enough cash for the business operation

    Probability
    Unlikely, Seldom, Occasional, Likely, Definite (range 1-5)
    Likely = 4 (company with poor financial management)

    Impact:
    Insignificant, Minor,Moderate,Critical,Catastrophic (range 1-5)
    Critical = 4 (can not produce, no production, no incoming , no money)

    So risk value = 4x4 = 16
    High value risk.

    I have to lower this value, how?
    Focusing on the probability

    Implementing plans for mitigation, one could be to apply an efficient financial management
    other could be to get a loan from a bank.

    After implemented, we evaluate the residual risk
    now P is in a better condition, because of implemented plans = 1
    Impact remains the same = 4

    New risk value is = 1x4 = 4 (allowable value), its acceptable.

    Questions:
    1-In your perception of impact (indemnification), what could be the action to minimize the impact?
    wouldn´t be the mitigation plans I proposed?

    2- Or can we implement actions on P and I, to reduce their values?

    Take into consideration, this is an approach to address risk in 9001 2015

    Thanks for your responses.
     
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  4. Miner

    Miner Moderator Staff Member

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    Not every impact can be reduced. Take a chain saw. There is no way that you can reduce the impact of a chain saw and still have a functioning chain saw. That is why there are multiple avenues for risk management.

    However, some can. Take an example where a company purchases a product from another company and brand labels it as their own. In order to reduce the impact of a product liability risk, they can include an indemnification clause in the contract with the OEM. Then, if sued, the OEM is financially responsible, lessening the impact.
     
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  5. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Yeah this approach will surely satisfy ISO 9001:2015. But, the standard does not require to calculate the risk or its level. Clause 6.1 only requires to:
    • "determine the risks and opportunities that need to be addressed..." - cl. 6.1.1;
    • "plan...actions to address these risks ans opportunities..." - cl. 6.1.2a;
    • "plan...how to...integrate and implement the actions..." - cl. 6.1.2b.1;
    • "plan...how to...evaluate the effectiveness of these actions" - cl. 6.1.2b.2
    Why not just determine the risks and/or opportunities and plan actions on them - regardless of the risk level? Calculating Risk Level = Severity X Likelihood or R=PXI then acting only on those with high score may cause the organization to "subjectively" select on those risk that they want to prioritize.
     
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  6. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Tony's
    But anyway the R value, has to be calculated again,when mitigation is done, (residual risk)
    Then that's my root question if only we can change the likelihood, but not the impact.
     
  7. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is that "impact" can only be reduced if you change the design of the material, product, or even the process. While "likelihood" is easier to reduce by having controls in the hierarchy of elimination, substitution, mistake proofing, detection, facilitation (or visual controls), and/or mitigation.
     
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  8. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Tony s
    In ither matter, Could you share examples of
    What/how to monitor, and review in 4.1 and 4.2,
    Internal and external?

    Thanks
     
  9. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Didn't I make myself clear here?
     

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