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Application of Clause 8.5.1 control Production and service Provision

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Padym, Apr 18, 2016.

  1. Padym

    Padym Active Member

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    Can't the requirements under this sub-clause be applied to even Sales process or support process like HR, purchase as I think even these process should be controlled for the provision of services they provide and end-users being internal customers of the organisation?

    Or should it applied only for those processes who deals with the fulfilment of customer orders (in IT Technology or Service industry it could be an infrastructure delivery, Managed services, support team)
     
  2. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    Process controls should be applied anywhere risk is identified and targeted for reduction or elimination. While it is true that the main focus is customer satisfaction, support processes like HR can also have very important functions and should be planned and performed to minimize waste so as to help get it done. Let us consider the requirement for knowledge management and the Notes encouraging us to consider factors in the work environment that can impede people from performing as well as we are able.

    Sales is also critically important as it is the process in which customer interface happens. Poor record keeping, slow return calls, lack of interpersonal skills and other issues might cause or contribute to loss of sales.
     
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  3. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Definitely YES. Below are examples of processes where the letters of the 8.5.1 subclause are applicable:
    Human Resource Management - a2, b, d, e, and g;
    IT (system/application development) - a1, a2, b, c, d, e, f, g and h;
    Equipment Maintenance - a2, b, d, e, f, g and h;
    Finance and Accounting - a2, b, d, e, and g.​
     
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  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Since ISO 9001 is about the quality of product, the "Production" part of the clause name means the process(es) applicable to the product. Sure you could apply the controls to other process (non-product) but that's a bridge too far for most...
     
  5. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Actually, most (if not all) of the requirements within 8.5.1 are just reiteration of the requirements in other clauses of ISO 9001:2015. For example:
    • 8.5.1a - is a reiteration of 4.4.2;
    • 8.5.1b - is a reiteration of 7.1.5.1;
    • 8.5.1c - is a reiteration of 4.4.1c, 9.1.1;
    • 8.5.1d - is a reiteration of 7.1.3, 7.1.4;
    • 8.5.1e - is a reiteration of 7.2;
    • 8.5.1f - is more specific to 8.5.1 but related to 8.3.2c, 8.3.4d, 8.3.4e, 8.4.3f;
    • 8.5.1g - is an RBT action and not only limited to 8.5.1 but also covered in 6.1.1c, 7.1.4, 10.1b;
    • 8.5.1h - is also covered in 8.2.3.1a, 8.5.5
     
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  6. Paul Simpson

    Paul Simpson Member

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    There's a lot of sense in the posts above. I'd just make the point that, while there is duplication and overlap across the clauses of 9001, the secret to implementing the QMS is not to get down 'into the weeds' of individual requirements but keep the big picture in mind:

    How do we manage what we do to give the customer what we have promised or what they have asked for?

    If we can do that then all the process requirements will be met.

    Hope this helps.
     
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