1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
Dismiss Notice
You must be a registered member in order to post messages and view/download attached files in this forum.
Click here to register.

What share 9001 and 18001

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Qualmx, Jun 6, 2019.

  1. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2015
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    27
    Location:
    Mexico
    Hello everyone.
    Please advise in this topic
    In a 9001 system, then integrating a 18001, what issues can share between them?
    What can exist as a unit and can be used for both systems?
    The idea is to certify both.
    Maybe policy, scope, control of documents, audits, management reviews?
    Thanks for your help
     
    Qualmx, Jun 6, 2019
    #1
  2. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    926
    Likes Received:
    1,081
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Isn't there a matrix in the back of either standard that shows alignment? If not, it's an easy Google search.
     
    RoxaneB, Jun 7, 2019
    #2
    Qualmx likes this.
  3. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    538
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    Upper Midwest- USA
    Good day @Qualmx
    As you likely know, OHSAS 18001 has now been replaced with ISO 45001. I recently helped a company write and establish their ISO 45001 system. We fully integrated it with their ISO 14001 system, which worked quite well. In regards to their QMS, contrary to my council they wanted to keep much of it "separate", but we did integrate in regards to 7.5 (documented information), 10.2 (corrective action), 10.3 (continuous improvement).

    Other areas that could be easily fully integrated with the QMS are 4- (COTO); 7- (support) 9- (performance evaluation).

    Hope this helps.

    Be well.
     
    John C. Abnet, Jun 7, 2019
    #3
    Qualmx likes this.
  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    5,432
    Likes Received:
    2,696
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    There's no point. OSHAS 18001 is obsolete
     
    Andy Nichols, Jun 7, 2019
    #4
  5. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1,367
    Likes Received:
    1,069
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    Laguna Philippines
    Due to the high level structure of management systems’ standards, I believe, there’s a lot where organizations can implement integration from clauses 4 to 10. More importantly, organizations should examine their already established business processes and integrate the requirements of the standards they subscribe to (e.g. use the existing management meeting as the venue for reviewing the suitability, adequacy and effectiveness of their QMS, EMS and OHSMS).
     
    tony s, Jun 8, 2019
    #5
    Qualmx likes this.
  6. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,071
    Likes Received:
    723
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    USA
    I have seen points of direct integration for both OHSAS 18001, 4.4.6 and ISO 45001, 7.1: For infrastructure, that which can harm people may also harm product. In this regard, OHSAS 18001 is not yet obsolete (its scheduled obsolescence is coming due in March 2021, by which time organizations who are already certified to BS OHSAS 18001 will need to upgrade to ISO 45001).
    • Infrastructure that transports product. Forklifts, cranes and hoists that directly handle product are subject to requirements that address the equipment's' readiness. ISO 9001:2015 refers to "transport" in its requirements for infrastructure in 7.1. ISO 45001 requires controls in 7.1 and 8.1, in part due to regulator (relevant interested party) requirements of 4.2.
    • Workplace environment referred to in 7.1.4 of ISO 9001:2015 is specifically explained in the NOTES, which include references to the same physical conditions that could impact both product and people at the same time. 7.1.4 NOTES go on to include some controversial "soft" considerations relating to employee well being, which ISO 45001 cites in 6.1.2.1a).
    Management processes can seamlessly integrate. Examples include HR, Document Control, Internal Audits and Corrective Action, Contractor Control/Purchasing, and Management Review.
     
    Jennifer Kirley, Jun 10, 2019
    #6
  7. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2015
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    27
    Location:
    Mexico
    Thanks Jenni
    Policy, objectives, Scopes , certificate, risks methods,,could also be shared or separated?.
    Documentation code, is it recommended to keep them different?
    E.g. pro-opur-56, pro-qsal-34, where. O in first example means oshas and in second, q means quality?
    Please give feedback
    Thanks
     
    Qualmx, Jun 10, 2019
    #7
  8. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    538
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    Upper Midwest- USA
    Good day @Qualmx ;
    Ultimately only you and your organization can make these determinations. Here is my council for how to determine.

    If there would/will be redundancy within the documentation your organization’s management system needs, then integrate. If not, then consider that clause/aspect as potentially unique /autonomous for the respective system.

    Integrate as much as feasible.
    Remember to keep it scaleable (is ISO 45001 or some other system in your organization’s future??)

    Key point: avoid redundancy

    Hope this helps.

    Be well
     
    John C. Abnet, Jun 10, 2019
    #8
    Qualmx likes this.
  9. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    5,432
    Likes Received:
    2,696
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    You are talking about the things which don't matter (as much) as the real issue, which is can the organization's culture sustain integration. You can "mechanically" fit the requirements together, but does the management approach to doing quality and safety TOGETHER fit? That's the important thing.
     
    Andy Nichols, Jun 10, 2019
    #9
    Jennifer Kirley and Qualmx like this.
  10. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1,367
    Likes Received:
    1,069
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    Laguna Philippines
    Does pro-opur-56 mean an OHS procedure in purchasing and pro-qsal-34 mean a QMS procedure in sales? Both procedures have titles which can provide better identification and description, why don't you just drop the "o" and "q" to reduce the length of the code? Or you can do away with the code if it confuses you.
     
    tony s, Jun 11, 2019
    #10
    Qualmx likes this.
  11. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,071
    Likes Received:
    723
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    USA
    I have seen quality procedures with a section addressing safety controls. In this way, documentation integration for users can be possible.

    Some processes, such as internal audit, can apply to both with few differences.

    Some documents will be specific to safety, which is okay. You can name them differently in whatever method is comfortable for you.

    Policy is not a seamless integration. Listen to Andy: it is more important that the management approach to doing quality and safety fit together.
     
    Jennifer Kirley, Jun 12, 2019
    #11