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What is it?

Discussion in 'IATF 16949:2016 - Automotive Quality Systems' started by Andy Nichols, Apr 30, 2019.

  1. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Can anyone help me understand the "automotive process approach for auditing, including risk-based thinking"? I have searched for a definition but cannot find one. How can I help internal auditors "understand" (7.2.3 Internal auditor competency) what isn't defined?
     
    Andy Nichols, Apr 30, 2019
    #1
  2. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    I believe I can almost see and feel your sarcasm in this post @Andy Nichols . I'm waiting with bated breath to see what responses (if any) this receives.

    I've asked/come across this same question before.
    :confused:
    My opinion? There is no answer. This appears to be another case of the IATF group being "creative" with their requirements. (hopefully my sarcastic/cynical nature isn't showing !).

    (Hopefully someone can cause me to have egg on my face, by providing an actual/substantiated response.)
     
    John C. Abnet, May 1, 2019
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  3. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Moi? ;)
     
    Andy Nichols, May 1, 2019
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  4. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    Automotive rules all. They came up with the process approach -- thus the automotive process approach.

    Oh, and they invented the internet.
     
    Golfman25, May 1, 2019
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  5. hogheavenfarm

    hogheavenfarm Well-Known Member

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    "automotive process approach for auditing" - Simple - drive-by auditing...quick and painless....
     
    hogheavenfarm, May 1, 2019
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  6. Miner

    Miner Moderator Staff Member

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    No. Everyone knows that was Al Gore. ;) He said he created it.
     
    Miner, May 2, 2019
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  7. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I've posted the same question over at the Linkedin IATF 16949 group and await the replies. I have a couple from people I know and trust, yet we seem to agree: There is no definition. There was, under ISO/TS 16949 as an SI, but those were absorbed into TS 16949 (apparently) except this one hasn't. The plot thickens...
     
    Andy Nichols, May 2, 2019
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  8. qmr1976

    qmr1976 Well-Known Member

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    That is my biggest frustration with the IATF standard. (All quality/environmental standards, really) Some clauses are so vague that you are constantly questioning if you are meeting the intent of the standard. You don't really know until you get audited and this is how the CBs stay in business. It's so vague, that they are almost always guaranteed to find something. Plus the fact that nobody is perfect. ;) But, based on notes that I have taken in my internal auditor training this is how it's defined:
    -Process owner identified,
    -Process identified (flowchart, narrative, etc.),
    -Process is defined,
    -Linkages are identified, established and understood,
    -Process is monitored, analyzed and improved (Risks and opportunities identified, mitigated and reviewed) -Documented information is maintained.
     
    qmr1976, Jul 8, 2019
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  9. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Andy Nichols, Jul 8, 2019
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  10. johnnymo77

    johnnymo77 Active Member

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    I came across this term in my Lead Auditor training material from Exemplar. No definition, but I wrote in that the instructor said "this class".
     
    johnnymo77, Jul 25, 2019
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  11. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Interesting. Everyone would have to go to the same class, in that case?

    I asked an (ex) IATF auditor and he couldn't tell me, either.

    What's most worrisome is that hundreds of companies have undergone audits and yet there's no clear definition of what this process approach actually means...:confused:
     
    Andy Nichols, Jul 25, 2019
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  12. judegu

    judegu Well-Known Member

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    I share the same feeling. It is so vague.
    And I have a vague answer to what the process approach is.
    The process approach is to see(manage) the work flow(process) using SIPOC model. And see all the process as a system.
     
    judegu, Jul 29, 2019
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  13. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    And that's what I hear from others, but it's not an "official" answer. TBH anyone can say what a process is, however it's only a small part of ALL that's necessary to function.
     
    Andy Nichols, Jul 29, 2019
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