Need Recommendations for Benefical External Auditing Training

The Lead Auditor course is SPECIFICALLY for external auditors. Why do you think it is for internal auditors? If you look at the SAI Global blurb about the course (I used to teach it or its forerunner) it states it's for supplier auditors etc...

 

For automotive people, I might agree - but you'll have your head filled with all kinds of stuff which isn't applicable to the vanilla "ISO" world, otherwise...

 

Weeeellll, some of SAI's instructors would take a look at the people in the room and ask if any were going to do external audits (many times no-one was there for that purpose) and make the case studies etc into an "internal audit" instead - except the materials really don't support that idea. But whatever, you went through an external audit case study, despite what it was named! Trust me!

 

I wonder if you heard the word 'internal' because the majority of the participants are there to learn how to conduct auditors within their own organizations. The language might have been tailored so that the participants could mentally apply to themselves.

 

Interesting thought, RB! Are you thinking they are acting as guides for the external auditors?

 

Not really...when I took my lead auditor course, the majority of the participants were from local organizations and responsible for either implementing the QMS, being the Management Rep (and they wanted to be able to speak the language of auditors) or they were heading up the audit programme within their organization.

 

I'd say it's good if you are in the business of affording to do supplier development... Bearing in mind that the UK market is much more mature with its use of ISO and certification than the USA, in many respects, it might come across as very heavy handed. Scores would be low and you'd be under some obligation to assist the supplier get to where you want them to be. Most organizations don't have the SQA resources to develop suppliers and the geography of the USA makes it extremely expensive, too. I can't get out of Michigan in 3 hours (westwards) but in the UK (forgetting traffic for a moment) 3 hours takes you a good way between London and Manchester. Don't forget, that VDA is based on the old guidance (ISO 9004) but brought up to date around TS 16949. See this: https://www.industryforum.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2014/02/VDA-webinar-01.04.13..pdf

From a look at the questions, you'd have to have suppliers agree and commit (which means you'll give them business) to even do much of what's in the checklist...

 

The Lead Auditor course is specifically for that, really, Nikki. Despite what some will tell you, the original intent of being a LA was FOR supplier audits. What do you think you need? More experience? Coaching?

 

I'm not surprised to learn that! Some instructors have forgotten the reason the course exists!

 

If you can't find a course on the subject, Nikki, I'm sure you've plenty of people here who can help coach and guide. I had to learn process auditing on my own, but thankfully had two really good external auditors to help me along.

One of the easiest ways I started was to go out into the area where final product was about to shipped. It was on the truck and the driver was about to leave. I pulled a few product numbers from that load and followed the process backwards. From shipping to warehousing to QC sign-off to manufacturing to raw materials and purchasing to sales...and all the supportive processes that touched them. I used our own internal documentation as the requirements and if no documentation existed, I looked for consistency between operators and stakeholders.

 

Agreed, Roxanne. I'd also advise Nikki that being able to process audit is somewhat separate from supplier auditing. One may, however, be a way to accomplish the other, but not all supplier audits are process based.