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Manufacturing process audits 9.2.2.3

Discussion in 'IATF 16949:2016 - Automotive Quality Systems' started by Etiennne, Feb 27, 2019.

  1. Etiennne

    Etiennne New Member

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    When conduction MPA audits, is it a requirement of IATF 16949:2016 that the audits must be layered audits per CQI-8? What tools / techniques are used for these audits?
     
    Etiennne, Feb 27, 2019
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  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    No. Manufacturing Process Audits, are typically conducted as a Control Plan audits (although not uniquely). They should be conducted within the requirements of 9.2 and LPAs do NOT meet this requirement.
     
    Andy Nichols, Feb 27, 2019
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  3. Etiennne

    Etiennne New Member

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    Andy, many thanks for this reply. Much appreciated. Etienne
     
    Etiennne, Feb 27, 2019
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  4. judegu

    judegu Well-Known Member

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    I couldn`t agree more on this one. However I always have this question, is this kind of control plan audits the real manufacturing process audit which the standard talks about. When would VDA 6.3 be used as manufacturing process audit? I have read the newest VDA 6.3 (the red-cover version). My feeling to the checklist in VDA 6.3 is that it is kind of generic. I am not sure how it serves as the checklist for manufacturing process audit, no details in it.
     
    judegu, Mar 4, 2019
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  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    It wouldn't.
     
    Andy Nichols, Mar 4, 2019
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  6. Serious Man

    Serious Man Active Member

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    VDA 6.3 is example of audit method.
    OEMs find it adequate for purpose of manufacturing process audit.
    Questions in section 6 are all about production, but their scope is much wider than control plan only.
    In some aspects it looks much more like system audit, but still we audit manufacturing process.

    Regarding initial question, control plan is not enough.
    PFMEA must be used as well.
    Organizations still poorly manage PFMEA - control plan interfaces, therefore internal auditors were asked to audit according to PFMEA too.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2019
    Serious Man, Mar 5, 2019
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  7. johnnymo77

    johnnymo77 Active Member

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    The Fiat-Chrysler CSR calls out LPAs for their MPA, in their section 9.2.2.3.
     
    johnnymo77, Mar 5, 2019
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  8. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Aha, however, even in consideration of the Sanctioned Interpretations, "At a minimum, manufacturing process auditors shall demonstrate technical understanding of the relevant manufacturing process(es) to be audited, including process risk analysis (such as PFMEA) and control plan." - I'd almost guarantee LPA auditors don't know this stuff, nor do they audit these 2 key documents...
     
    Andy Nichols, Mar 5, 2019
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  9. johnnymo77

    johnnymo77 Active Member

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    I agree.
     
    johnnymo77, Mar 5, 2019
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