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Lean Deployment: What should come first 5S or 8Wastes

Discussion in 'Lean, Six Sigma and DFSS' started by reynald, Aug 5, 2015.

  1. reynald

    reynald Member

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    I'm currently reviewing some literature and the most common answer is to ensure 5S in in place first before attempting to eliminate wastes (i.e. having a Kaizen walk program).

    Some sources though says eliminate the wastes first.

    My questions is if you are going to introduce Lean to an organization, which program would you do first? Are there situations where one is more important than the other, or is it that the other should ALWAYS come first before attempting the other one?

    What are your thoughts on this?
     
    reynald, Aug 5, 2015
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  2. Bev D

    Bev D Moderator Staff Member

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    well, 5S is a tool to eliminate some waste and improve the visibility of the area to expose more waste. (the only downside becomes when the organization sees 5S as all there is to Lean)
    There are many ways to start:
    - 5S
    - Accountability boards with Gemba walks to expose and eliminate waste through small Kaizen events
    - A large value stream mapping followed by a planned series of Kaizens
    Some may say that it is important to start somewhere but you need to have a medium to long term plan to make the start be seen as valuable.
    I have found that successful deployments start where you get the biggest bang for your buck. go find out what your biggest constraints are and start there.

    I am currently recommending that folks in your position read the book "The Gold Mine" to get a feel for how to start and what will work with your current environment. I prefer
     
    Bev D, Aug 5, 2015
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  3. Wayne Clite

    Wayne Clite New Member

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    I recommend starting with 5S in most situations. Once you Sort out the waste and Organize the work area you can easily see process waste that can be " low hanging Fruit" for your Lean initiative. Then, a VSM would follow.
     
    Wayne Clite, Aug 5, 2015
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  4. reynald

    reynald Member

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    "go find out what your biggest constraints are and start there." -- This is a gold nugget for me. Makes total sense.
    Thanks for the book recommendation, I'll grab a copy.
     
    reynald, Aug 6, 2015
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  5. Ravi Khare

    Ravi Khare Member

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    Thanks for the book recommendation Bev. Almost everyone is talking highly about The Gold Mine as they review it on Amazon, with many comparing it with Eli Goldratt's The Goal.
    Had my kindle edition delivered yesterday. It's a looks like a lucid simple narrative that keeps you engaged. I am sure there are some gems there further down.
     
    Ravi Khare, Aug 7, 2015
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  6. reynald

    reynald Member

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    Just received my copy of the Gold Mine.
    The writing style is somewhat similar to The Goal, very easy to read (at least on the 1st chapter that I already read).
    I'm planning going slow though, as I have a tendency to miss the point when reading too fast.
     
    reynald, Aug 11, 2015
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  7. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd go with 5S first...at least the first two S's of Sort and Simplify. Then when you look at the processes, identify possible areas of waste, potentially revamp the processes...the remaining S's can be brought in. I don't think it's a case of one must be done before the other. Not everything has a clear-cut sequential pattern for implementation.
     
    RoxaneB, Aug 13, 2015
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  8. Claes Gefvenberg

    Claes Gefvenberg Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, absolutely. I have seen first hand what happens when you don't, and it is not a pretty sight: A lot of energy, projects and time was thoroughly wasted on issues that simply would not have been there if the place had been brought to some semblance of order in the first place. Pure muda, I'm afraid.
     
    Claes Gefvenberg, Aug 14, 2015
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  9. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    And trying to bring in 5S while trying to improve a process and eliminate waste, can be a bit overwhelming for a team that has little - if any - experience in either concept. Too much information and newness can have them working hard instead of working smart.
     
    RoxaneB, Aug 14, 2015
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  10. MCW8888

    MCW8888 Well-Known Member

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    5S should come first.
     
    MCW8888, Aug 19, 2015
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  11. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree with all the reasons above for starting out with 5S, and suggest that its small-scale successes can lead to a more welcoming attitude toward VSM and stronger discipline that could help its success in turn.
     
    Jennifer Kirley, Aug 20, 2015
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  12. Hansei

    Hansei New Member

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    5S is a great tool to eliminate waste.. but it is always nice for people to understand why they are doing it - You should try explain the 7 wastes as part of your 5S pilot.
     
    Hansei, Sep 2, 2015
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  13. Michael

    Michael New Member

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    The purpose of lean manufacturing is to eliminate waste. In order to achieve this, the first step is to identify waste, we need to develop our e, yes to see the waste. As long as we can see the waste, we can take actions to reduce or eliminate it.
    (1) What's waste, anything that does not change fit, form and function is a waste.
    (2)There are normally 7 kinds of waste, Transportation, Inventory, Motion, Waiting, Overproduction, Overprocessing, Defect
    (3)It is important to understand what's necessary and waste, sometimes people say that transporting raw material from warehouse to shop floor is absolutely necessary to ensure smooth transformation from raw material to fininished goods. yes, they are right, it is absolutely necessary, but it is absolutely a waste because it does not change fit, form and function of the production.
    (4)Develop your eyes to see waste and flow is the first step.
    (5) In an organization, it is not enough if just a few people can see WASTE, all employees should be trained on how to identify waste

    The purpose of 5S is not just to clean or just housekeeping, the purpose of 5S,including visual management is to expose the waste. It is the foundation of lean manufacturing.

    Hope it helps
     
    Michael, Sep 5, 2015
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  14. Bev D

    Bev D Moderator Staff Member

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    in a manufacturing line, 5S is often the first - and most appropriate - step. (the downside of this is that some people come to believe that 5S is Lean and they stop there)
    However, for business processes, 5S is often a very difficult concept (It isn't about having a label and desk outline for your stapler) and so it can be more beneficial and helpful to start somewhere else.
     
    Bev D, Sep 8, 2015
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