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IATF vs ISO 9001:2015 Certification

Discussion in 'IATF 16949:2016 - Automotive Quality Systems' started by qmr1976, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. qmr1976

    qmr1976 Well-Known Member

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    So, our company is currently certified in both IATF and ISO 9001:2015. In our most recent IATF audit, our auditor suggested we drop the ISO certification because everything is covered in IATF. My question is how can that be possible when the IATF standard refers you back to ISO standard for some of the clauses? I am guessing we have both certifications because we do automotive and non-automotive work.
     
    qmr1976, Jul 10, 2019
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  2. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    Well that depends what you are trying to do. We where only TS certified for years, no ISO. Our automotive customers wanted the automotive standard back from the QS days. Our non-auto customers didn't really care and accepted our TS cert. Our goal was to save the few dollars and extra time required for both certs.
     
    Golfman25, Jul 11, 2019
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  3. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Do your current non-automotive customers require your organization to maintain certification against ISO 9001:2015? If not, is it a business decision by top management to keep the certificate for marketing purpose? If not, can you not fulfill the requirements in ISO 9001 using the IATF standard? If you answered Yes to any of the questions, then you need to maintain certification to ISO 9001.
     
    tony s, Jul 11, 2019
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  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Sadly auditors are somewhat prone to making such erroneous comments, without fully considering what they are saying. Since IATF 16949 as most of us know is based upon ISO 9001:2015 you cannot actually meet the former requirement without the latter. Now, if, for discussion's sake, your chosen Certification Body issues both an IATF 16949 Certificate AND an ISO 9001:2015 certificate, does the auditor mean send the ISO 9001 back to the CB who issued it? (It's technically their property, right?)

    Of course, Tony's commentary is also helpful, since you may not be 100% automotive, but even then, what is gained by "dropping" an ISO 9001 Certificate? It won't save anything in terms of audit time!
     
    Andy Nichols, Jul 11, 2019
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  5. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    Well in my experience adding ISO required another half day of auditing to audit non-automotive products. So for us the savings was significant -- auditor costs plus our (my) time spent dealing with it.
     
    Golfman25, Jul 12, 2019
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  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    So, the auditor is consulting on cost savings? WTH? And I've never, ever, heard in 8+ years of being in CB sales, ADDING time for an ISO audit over automotive. Are you sure you aren't being conned?

    Plus, given the auditor's comment, you can't "drop" ISO 9001 certification - it's baked into the IATF certification. It's a nonsense comment from a person unqualified to make it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
    Andy Nichols, Jul 12, 2019
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  7. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    No. Don't overthink it. No consulting. Just reality. Since we are a job shop and do both auto and non-auto components, QS/TS auditors would only look at our processes involved with automotive products. We could have 15 jobs running, but they would only look at the 2 which were automotive related. The other 13 jobs "didn't exist" for our audits. Every CB (not auditors) we spoke with added additional time to look at the non-automotive parts to get a separate ISO certificate.

    Where we being conned? The ISO/IATF auditing scheme is a con.
     
    Golfman25, Jul 15, 2019
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  8. judegu

    judegu Well-Known Member

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    IATF 16946 is based on ISO 9001. If you Only produce automotive products, getting 16949 certification means getting ISO 9001 certification simultaneously, right?
     
    judegu, Jul 29, 2019
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  9. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes - BUT... Some Certification Bodies don't a) give an ISO 9001:2015 Certificate and b) charge extra for an ISO 9001:2015 Certificate. Also, if any products are non-automotive, I believe they might charge for extra time to audit the QMS surrounding them.
     
    Andy Nichols, Jul 29, 2019
    #9