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How to verify that a supplier's ISO 9001:2008 is legitimate

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2008 - Quality Management Systems' started by normzone, Mar 15, 2016.

  1. normzone

    normzone Well-Known Member

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    I am probably suffering from too much coffee or something.

    I was corresponding with a supplier re a corrective action I gave them, and in my travels 'cross the interweb I found their certificate on their website. It was expired - not an uncommon thing.

    So I told them about it, and a couple of days later the new one appeared online.

    My organization's cert shows an issue date and an expiration date three years apart.

    My supplier's cert showed an issue date and an expiration date one year apart. The new version of it shows issue and expiration two years apart.

    This is probably much ado about nothing, but shouldn't there be a standard format in use?

    And how would the certifying body respond if I were to email them with the certificate number and ask for verification that they issued it and it is current ?
     
    normzone, Mar 15, 2016
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  2. David Sheaffe

    David Sheaffe Member

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    Some certifying bodies have a searchable database on line where you can search for, and confirm certificate status. You might be lucky with the CB in question - and confirm the status without having to contact them at all
     
    David Sheaffe, Mar 15, 2016
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  3. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Is it a certificate bearing a mark by an accreditation body which is an IAF member? That's a good place to start. If not, all bets are off...
     
    Andy Nichols, Mar 15, 2016
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  4. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    It does sound strange... the cert should list the CB. You can contact them, or hopefully verify your supplier's certificate with a database - some want a query form filled out.

    I can offer that a new certificate might show a short duration if it was transferred from one CB to another, or if there was a name change or scope change.
     
    Jennifer Kirley, Mar 16, 2016
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  5. normzone

    normzone Well-Known Member

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    After some more research, I've determined that the supplier in question has a certificate lacking IAF and issued by a certifying body that has some negative press and legal issues in the last decade.

    Granted, it's a messy world, and that's not necessarily the kiss of death, but it is interesting.

    Thanks for your help -
     
    normzone, Mar 18, 2016
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  6. Claes Gefvenberg

    Claes Gefvenberg Moderator Staff Member

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    I have come across a few strange certificates over the years. In one case, the certificate had been issued by a registrar I did not recognize, so I had a closer look. It bore the mark by an accreditation body I also did not recognize, and I looked further. In the end it turned out that the registrar and the accreditation body in question were owned by the same person. This is not illegal, but someone sporting such a piece of paper would not be my fist choice when looking for a supplier. Nor my second... That said, the company in question may be good in spite of that strange certificate, but I am not in favour of getting the grades without doing the work.
     
    Claes Gefvenberg, Mar 20, 2016
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  7. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    If it isn't illegal, it's still dangerously close to fraud because most organizations get certified with the idea that the certificate is legitimate - yet many do not understand the hierarchy to IAF.

    If you are thinking of the same registrar as I am, he has stopped using that strange symbol and is now listing accreditation under AIAO, an organization not recognized by IAF and who does not seem to mind if registrars issue certificates without a site visit.
     
    Jennifer Kirley, Mar 20, 2016
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  8. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    It is a shark tank, to be sure. Buyer beware... but if the system was working as it should there would not need to be a lot of investigation such as you did, but others might not know enough to do. I have described the registrar(s) that Claes and I mentioned to some of my clients, and they were shocked and dismayed. They got that faraway look as they wondered "Are my suppliers' registrations legit?"
     
    Jennifer Kirley, Mar 20, 2016
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  9. Claes Gefvenberg

    Claes Gefvenberg Moderator Staff Member

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    Not in this case, but I know which one you are thinking about. That was pretty interesting too.
     
    Claes Gefvenberg, Mar 20, 2016
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  10. Glenn0004

    Glenn0004 Member

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    There are registrars out there that are not recognized by the IAF, I've just expanded our 9001 management system to two subsidiary companies one which previously had held 9001 with a registrar that was not recognized by the IAF and had a certificate with a 10 year expiry.

    In light of those 9001 myths that ISO 9001 accredited organisations can only do business with other ISO 9001 accredited organisations, always worth remembering that the validation of a suppliers ISO registration would only become a requirement if your supplier selection criteria mandates that the supplier has to hold ISO 9001.
     
    Glenn0004, Apr 12, 2016
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  11. David Sanabria

    David Sanabria Active Member

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    See if the ANAB logo is with the certificate

    and check ANAB, UKAS - etc to see if the CB is not suspended or in trouble.

    Read this article for more suggestion: http://www.qualitydigest.com/inside...-find-out-if-iso-9001-certificate-valid.html#
     
    David Sanabria, Apr 12, 2016
    #11