1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
Dismiss Notice
You must be a registered member in order to post messages and view/download attached files in this forum.
Click here to register.

Here's a thought...

Discussion in 'ISO 19011 - Auditing Management Systems Guidelines' started by Andy Nichols, Oct 22, 2020.

  1. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    5,412
    Likes Received:
    2,691
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Auditing is a form of verification (measurement) and auditors are, therefore, measuring "devices". How to "verify" or "calibrate" them? (and should we put a sticker on them?)
     
    Andy Nichols, Oct 22, 2020
    #1
    LiviuSt and Nikki like this.
  2. Miner

    Miner Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    562
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    Greater Milwaukee USA
    Good point. Verify the effectiveness of their training and understanding through exam or application under eye of an expert? Require periodic requalification?
     
    Miner, Oct 22, 2020
    #2
    Andy Nichols likes this.
  3. Eric Twiname

    Eric Twiname Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    232
    Trophy Points:
    42
    Location:
    Northeast USA
    The guy we had overseeing our calibration recall system ALWAYS wore a calibration sticker on his shirt pocket when being audited...
    except for one particular auditor...then he wore a "Calibration not required" sticker...
    No idea if he asked the auditor to wear one...wouldn't surprise me.

    How you gonna trace an auditor back to NIST?
     
    Eric Twiname, Oct 22, 2020
    #3
  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    5,412
    Likes Received:
    2,691
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Not NIST, but ISO! ISO 9001:2015 doesn't mention NIST, but it does talk about national and international standards...
     
    Andy Nichols, Oct 22, 2020
    #4
  5. Eric Twiname

    Eric Twiname Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    232
    Trophy Points:
    42
    Location:
    Northeast USA
    LOL... and we have an organization that vets those things...what was it called? Something like the National Institute of Standards...or some such ;)
     
    Eric Twiname, Oct 22, 2020
    #5
  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    5,412
    Likes Received:
    2,691
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Hopefully, we won't have to consider bias, linearity and stability...:D
     
    Andy Nichols, Oct 22, 2020
    #6
    LiviuSt likes this.
  7. Eric Twiname

    Eric Twiname Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    232
    Trophy Points:
    42
    Location:
    Northeast USA
    An auditor with bias? Who would have thought?

    An auditor with stability? No comment...
     
    Eric Twiname, Oct 22, 2020
    #7
    Andy Nichols likes this.
  8. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    5,412
    Likes Received:
    2,691
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    We used to do "R & R" studies back when I first started in Certification. The CB management would get all the auditors together and we got to vote on certain selected audit findings... It was interesting to see how many reported non-conformities ended up NOT being agreed to by other auditors... It wasn't called an R & R study and management didn't think of it in that manner, but it was a good parallel.
     
    Andy Nichols, Oct 22, 2020
    #8
  9. Miner

    Miner Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    562
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    Greater Milwaukee USA
    It would be an attribute agreement analysis.
     
    Miner, Oct 22, 2020
    #9
    Andy Nichols and Eric Twiname like this.
  10. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    5,412
    Likes Received:
    2,691
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Andy Nichols, Oct 23, 2020
    #10