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Document Approval

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by jamescrockford, Apr 19, 2018.

  1. jamescrockford

    jamescrockford Active Member

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    Hi all,

    A quick question, I am used to manuals/procedures being approved/signed by the Managing Director but do not believe this to be a requirement.

    I (the Quality Manager) report to the Engineering Manager, is it appropriate to have him sign/approve procedures for corrective action, internal audit, management review etc.?
     
    jamescrockford, Apr 19, 2018
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  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Signing unnecessary. Certainly not the MD. Given authority to process owners. Use another method than signing on the document.
     
    Andy Nichols, Apr 19, 2018
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  3. jamescrockford

    jamescrockford Active Member

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    Okay thanks, can the author also approve the procedure? In this instance, I have written the procedure, I am the process owner...
     
    jamescrockford, Apr 19, 2018
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  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I would say so. I authored a couple of books - no one else "approved" them. Sure, they were reviewed both technically and editorially (grammar etc) but once that was done, I was happy to go to print. I'd suggest that a review for compliance to any standards and/or customer/regulatory requirements which may impact documents is carried out, otherwise it's an optimal situation to have process owners draft and approve their own.
     
    Andy Nichols, Apr 19, 2018
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  5. Serious Man

    Serious Man Active Member

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    This requirement is not about simple putting signature on document.
    It is about assuring adequacy of document content through deploying certain procedure.
    I mean here, e.g. comparison of output document to input information used to prepare document or simulating implementation of activities described by document.

    We have, even we don't want it, white-blue collar conflict in our organisations.
    White collars have to work hard to earn blue collars' respect.
    Documents are in many cases "opportunity" to fail and white collars are "willing" to do it, underestimating value of document.

    Clear pathology for me is a presence of "Check" cell on document.
    Checker does not care, as approver certainly will do a "good job" during approval.
    Approver does not care, as checker certainly has done a "good job" during checking.

    Basic questions - where (in case of what document) we see a risk of inadequacy and does our approval procedure is value added?
     
    Serious Man, Apr 19, 2018
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  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I missed a thought from a previous post; I like to reduce the bureaucracy associated with document control - the less evidence actually in a document the better, IMHO. So, I use a change control form which carries all the evidence of review/approval/distribution and so on.
     
    Andy Nichols, Apr 19, 2018
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  7. jamescrockford

    jamescrockford Active Member

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    So to clarify, for procedures for say corrective action/control of non-conforming product, I can write them and I can approve them?
     
    jamescrockford, Apr 19, 2018
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  8. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Indeed you can. Nothing in any standard (unless very specific like a regulation) to prevent this. Make sure, however, any document control procedure you have provides for this.
     
    Andy Nichols, Apr 19, 2018
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  9. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    To build upon Andy's point, hopefully what you've written was developed, not in isolation, but rather with input from those applying the documented activities. :)#IvoryTowerSyndrome
     
    RoxaneB, Apr 19, 2018
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  10. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    I've seen organizations that sign every page of their quality manual and documented procedures:eek:. I subscribe to Andy's approach of having a form where the evidences of review/approval/distribution are documented. This form is printed at the back of the draft document where the reviewing/approving authorities place their signatures and comments. See the sample below:
    upload_2018-4-20_17-58-46.png
     
    tony s, Apr 20, 2018
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  11. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    Depending on the size of the organization and the nature of the document, I'm all for electronic revision histories and electronic sign-offs. The author/writer makes the changes, summarizes them, and then submits the document for approval via the document management software. If login credentials are required for the software, having the approver "approve" or "reject" the revised document is "signed-off" by the fact that they used their login user name and password. No hard copy form required.
     
    RoxaneB, Apr 20, 2018
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