Difference between clause 8.7 and 10.2

My company is now transitioning to ISO9001:2015. As I look at these documented information one question came to my mind: What is the difference between Clause 8.7 Control of Nonconforming outputs and Clause 10.2 Nonconformity and corrective action? Is clause 10.2 the action taken when a non-conforming product/service is identified (internal or external)? Thank you.

 

Thank you Jennifer.

 

8.7 is what you do when you found a non-conforming product - you have to take action on that product/service (incidentaly, product has for a long time - t least since ISO 9000 - 2000 - meant services, software,hardware and processed materials).

10.2 is a little weird in this version of the standard. Past versions of the standard dealt with non conforming product as mentioned, and the corrective action clause was focused only in eliminating the cause and thus begun with reviewing NCs. One of the problem in that case was there were no specific requirement of what to do with NCs which were not related to product (for example, system NCs such as not complying with a process requirement). This new version in clause 10.2 corrected this because it begins with what to do when you find an NC (react to it), then you evaluate the need to corrective action.

The only problem (well, the worst one) is that 10.2.1 a) may create confusion in the case of non-conforming product requirements in 8.7.

 

Thank you.

 

8.7 is what you do when you have nonconforming output. That means products or services- so if the service we get from outsourced processes failed to meet our requirements per SLA we have to issue a Supplier Corrective Action which is 10.2 in order to eliminate the NC. Therefore can I just maintain a CAR log for all the product nonconformities external or external? The car log should have a section for containment, root cause and follow-up for effectiveness. The corrective actions taken from the nonconformity should improve the effectiveness of the process. Quality Alerts that we observe everyday in the LPA or GEMBA walk do not need root cause analysis but needs to be corrected right away. Your comment? Thank you.

 

Thank you all for your feedback.

 

As mentioned by Andy, you do not need to directly escalate for corrective action every NC.

In ISO 9001:2015, after you find a NC, you need to react to the NC, as mentioned in 10.2.1 a), and then you evaluate the need for a corrective action, in 102.1 b). You need to follow on c)-f) only the ones you determine in b) the need for corrective action (elimine the cause to prevent recurrence or occur elsewhere).

 

I understand, thank you.

 

Per ISO's "Correlation matrices between ISO 9001:2008 and ISO 9001:2015",

8.7, Control of nonconforming outputs (2015) <---> 8.3, Control of nonconforming product (2008)
10.2, Nonconformity and corrective action (2015) <---> 8.3 Control of nonconforming product; 8.5.2 Corrective action (2008)​

 

Is this official? Is this from iso.org? TC 176?

I believe it is not the intent of 8.7, even the 2008's 8.3, to extend the controls to initiate corrective action/s. The entire statements of both clauses mentioned the words "correction" and "corrected" but NOT "corrective action".

 

Looks like it is official, see page 4 of TC 176's correlation matrix. It aligns 8.3 to 8.7 and 8.3 & 8.5.2 to 10.2, an earlier version i had did not relate 8.3 to 10.2.

 

I think Tony's answer make sense to me now. I have that matrix. Thank you.

 

Yes. ISO TC 176 www.iso.org/tc176/sc02/public

 

Thank you.

 

Marcelo why no?, a nc needs corrective action (correction or corrective action (Fishbone 8d).
Or both. Ia better to say a nc needs a correction (containment ) or corrective action (full analysis)
Are you agree?

 

Thank you Jennifer. Correction is needed to stop the problem immediately. It may not need a full Corrective Action plan.