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Did your career progress?

Discussion in 'ISO 19011 - Auditing Management Systems Guidelines' started by Andy Nichols, Aug 16, 2023.

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  1. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Is being an Internal Auditor in your organization seen as a significant career progression? Does the responsibility for performing internal audits attract premium rates of compensation (salary scale or pay rate/hour)? Are internal auditor candidates chosen in recognition of being the “bright and best” with broad ranging knowledge of how the organization functions, possibly including having worked in multiple functions such as sales, engineering, maintenance, production, labs and personnel or accounting?
    No?
     
    Andy Nichols, Aug 16, 2023
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  2. yodon

    yodon Well-Known Member

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    I probably am in a different boat. As I'm the quality manager at my engineering firm, I really can't do much of the auditing; however, I did get my CQA from ASQ and have been doing internal audits for clients. Being an internal audit for clients has absolutely helped my in my career progression. Certainly opened my eyes to different ways of compliance and has helped me better position my company and my clients for compliance.
     
    yodon, Aug 17, 2023
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  3. Miner

    Miner Moderator Staff Member

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    In my company, the auditor role itself does not automatically aid in your career progression, but the expanded experience, process knowledge and network of people can definitely help if properly leveraged. On the reverse side, if you are a clueless jerk as an auditor, it can also hinder you.
     
    Miner, Aug 17, 2023
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  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Interesting! Yodon, yours sounds like a unique experience and one which is personally rewarding. How does your company value your audits? That’s what I’m interested in. I too am personally rewarded by my work, but the company pays me regardless of how happy I am…
     
    Andy Nichols, Aug 17, 2023
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  5. yodon

    yodon Well-Known Member

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    (Sorry for the delay, just now saw this)

    How the company values my audits is an interesting question. We're a contract shop so any billable time is "valued." :) As a company, we're actually trying to grow more audit competency since those are services we can sell; e.g., doing internal audits for clients, doing supplier audits for clients, etc.
     
    yodon, Aug 31, 2023
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  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes! I'm in a similar boat. Our group of quality dudes do internal audits, but I've come to realize that they aren't really "internal" in the purest sense. For example, because we are not "in" the client's buildings day-to-day, we don't know a lot of what's going on. For example, I did 2 internal audits for a client and stumbled in on situations which, as an outsider, I wasn't aware of - which manifest themselves as QMS issues! Had I been there much more regularly, those events (a person being fired and another being on vacation) would have been known and also probably factored into planning the audit (ref 9.2 of ISO 9001 - "changes affecting the QMS") instead of me tripping over them...

    In actual fact, most consultant-based audits I've seen are thinly disguised Registrar audits, against the standard or similar... Clearly, the ONLY benefit the client sees is the $2000 (or so) to keep the minimum audit done to maintain their certification. Not a ringing endorsement, IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2023
    Andy Nichols, Aug 31, 2023
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  7. yodon

    yodon Well-Known Member

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    I would tend to agree. I *try* to get away from that and dig deeper where it could matter (risk based, you know!). But, you're right, without an inside presence, there are going to be unknowns.

    I think there is value beyond the cost in having 'fresh' eyes on the material. I've found several things that were overlooked as "business as usual."
     
    yodon, Sep 6, 2023
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