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could the documented system for ISO 9001 cover two separate organizations?

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by sunrize, Dec 5, 2019.

  1. sunrize

    sunrize Member

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    Dear friends

    now i have some confusion about a current case:

    there is a two companies with different CR

    first company scope is producing of wood product (have 5 stuff)

    second company scope is exporting wood product (have 50 stuff)

    they are welling to implement ISO 9001:2015 and get a ISO 9001 certificate for each company separately

    My questions:
    1. Could we able to make a one documentation system for the two companies in one system because the the stuff of two companies are common and the top management is the same
     
    sunrize, Dec 5, 2019
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  2. Nitish Bhatia

    Nitish Bhatia Member

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    No , as scope of work is different for two companies
     
    Nitish Bhatia, Dec 5, 2019
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  3. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Good day @sunrize

    Yes. Often procedure level documentation (i.e. capturing WHO does WHAT and WHEN) can be communized if indeed that communization is relevant and "fits" each site.

    I respectfully disagree with @Nitish Bhatia because your question was not related to the certification (i.e. you specifically stated that each site will hold its own certification). Your question was specific to the documentation.

    So the answer is YES. If it works for your organization then you may use common documents as applicable.

    When I work for organizations wanting to do this, we often delineate between GLOBAL (common to all sites) and LOCAL (unique to each site) documents.

    Hope this helps.

    Be well.
     
    John C. Abnet, Dec 5, 2019
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  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    The scope doesn't determine the processes. The QMS CAN be the same and it's quite often done that way.
     
    Andy Nichols, Dec 5, 2019
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  5. Nitish Bhatia

    Nitish Bhatia Member

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    Audit will be done at only one site or both, and similarly certification would be awarded to both organizations??
     
    Nitish Bhatia, Dec 5, 2019
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  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Both locations must be audited (internally and externally) and the certificate can bear 2 organization's names. Trust me, I worked for an IAF Accredited CB.
     
    Andy Nichols, Dec 5, 2019
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  7. Leonid

    Leonid Well-Known Member

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    The certificate can bear 2 organization names if they have a common management system with a common scope. If the scope statement on the certificate would read "Production and export of wood products" this would mislead the interested parties because the scope as a whole is inapplicable to each organization.
     
    Leonid, Dec 12, 2019
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  8. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    My question is simply "why"?
    i.e. what would be the benefit to an organization to house two different entities on the same certification? (since both sites would require complete 3rd party audit activity, it seems the cost "savings' would be near negligible)

    Thoughts?
     
    John C. Abnet, Dec 12, 2019
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  9. Leonid

    Leonid Well-Known Member

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    There may be the benefit to the smaller, less successful entity.
     
    Leonid, Dec 13, 2019
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  10. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Nothing to do with "success"...

    To address my learned friend, @John C. Abnet - I've seen it when there are two businesses offering products AND services. So, in one case it was an active electronic device which needed to be programmed before shipping, which also means testing before the load was programmed. The service of testing was also available to clients of the company who didn't procure their devices instead needing the service of the functional checking. Hence, the quality systems were very similar and, for accounting purposes, they were separate business entities. One certificate.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
    Andy Nichols, Dec 13, 2019
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  11. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    Registrars list both sites as they operate in different locations. The site doing export would possibly have a smaller, more limited scope statement expressing its unique activities, e.g. "Warehousing and distribution."

    As so much can go wrong with wood products during export and there are some specific requirements as well, it makes sense to include export in your certification based on their share of impact to your organization's success.
     
    Jennifer Kirley, Dec 13, 2019
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  12. Katrijn

    Katrijn Member

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    If I read the OP correct:
    there are two companies with a different (but connecting) scope and the same management.
    They each want an ISO certificate (separately), but want to share a QMS.

    Seems like there is no issue here.
    Just be clear which documents in the QMS are relevant to which company (some can be both) and that everybody understands this system.
     
    Katrijn, Dec 17, 2019
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