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Business Scoping Document

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Anna Wagstaffe, Jan 15, 2018.

  1. Anna Wagstaffe

    Anna Wagstaffe Member

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    Hi,

    I've been lurking for a while but this is my first cause to post.

    We are in the process of transitioning to ISO9001:2015 (and 14001:2015 at the same time). It was mentioned at a CQI meeting that we need a business scoping document as well as the certification scope. I asked our auditor about it and he agreed yes we needed it and he would send an example. The example he sent was a full blown old fashioned clause by clause quality manual of many pages which I really don't think is necessary within the requirements of 9001:2015

    What I am struggling with is, what should this document look like? I am relatively comfortable with the sort of things which should go in it, but not having actually seen one, I am feeling very lost. To complicate things further, we are a group of companies, currently on one site, but expanding into a second shortly, all under one certificate (or set of - 9, 14 and 18001)

    I look forward to receiving some help with this. Anna
     
    Anna Wagstaffe, Jan 15, 2018
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  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Hmmmm, it depends a lot on what you do, of course, so in principle it might be correct, however...

    If you are, say, the Boeing Company, your scope could be pretty long and very descriptive: The Design, Development, Manufacture, Maintenance, Refurbishment, of commercial and military fixed and rotary-winged, including STOL & VTOL aircraft, weapons and associated systems, including training and spare parts supply, blah, blah, blah. The certificates scope might just say "The Design, Development and manufacture of aircraft"

    So, the CQI person may be correct, but they might not have been complete. What DOES your organization do, Anna?
     
    Andy Nichols, Jan 15, 2018
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  3. Anna Wagstaffe

    Anna Wagstaffe Member

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    Thanks for answering me Andy,

    We effectively have 4 business units, all covered on 1 certificate.
    • Pump resale and repair (for external customers)
    • Design, manufacture, installation and commissioning of pumping systems for the water industry (for external customers)
    • Steel fabrications (for internal and external customers)
    • GRP Kiosks (for internal and external customers)
    My understanding from the meeting/seminar was that the scoping document should be an overview of the full management systems, including usual types of customers and their associated contract types, through business unit relationships and particular requirements/licences etc, and on out to supplier requirements. Then include the interested parties etc for each.

    I have also heard from an IEMA webinar of one being required for 14001 which adds a whole other dimension, but the original mention was purely discussing 9001.

    I hope this explains our situation better.
     
    Anna Wagstaffe, Jan 16, 2018
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  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I get the impression that there's a level of complexity being introduced here or a terminology issue (dare I say the person doesn't understand?). So, ISO 9001:2015 does appear to make the scope of the QMS seem a lot more complex, at first sight. In all reality, it isn't meant to be rocket science and the CQI session seems to have created that impression. I wonder if it was delivered by a CB representative...

    Scopes do need to be documented, but the standard doesn't mention or event define a "scoping document" so that must have been a creation of imagination. Most organizations, for one reason or another, are likely to want to employ a Quality Manual of some kind. That's usually where the scope is documented. Scopes are, typically, a one or two sentence statement comprised the information you provided:

    "Design, manufacture, installation and commissioning of pumping systems for the water industry, including pump repair and resale. The manufacture of steel fabrications and GRP kiosks"

    This should be perfectly adequate. Anything else is "mission creep" and beyond what the standard requires. I believe what's happened is that the CQI presenter has merged a number of ISO 9001 requirements, including Context of the Organization etc. with the scope. This is inappropriate in my opinion, since most of the section 4 requirements (Context, interested parties, risks/opportunities) are best dealt with by the Management Review process. This is based upon my experience of several ISO 9001 implementations in 2016 and 2017.
     
    Andy Nichols, Jan 16, 2018
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  5. Anna Wagstaffe

    Anna Wagstaffe Member

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    Many thanks Andy,

    What you have said there is what I always understood, so I will just go with that and hopefully the auditor will not remember our conversation when it gets to audit time. I know I can argue it but its just easier not to have to.

    Anna
     
    Anna Wagstaffe, Jan 17, 2018
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  6. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    This over-complicates the requirement. ISO 9001 clause 4.3 only requires:
    "The scope shall state the types of products and services covered, and provide justification for any requirement of this International Standard that the organization determines is not applicable to the scope of its quality management system."

    To understand better the boundaries of the QMS, the standard requires us to consider a) internal/external issues, b) needs and expectations of interested parties and c) the organization's products and services. There is no requirement to include a) and b), including the things you mentioned from the meeting/seminar, in the scope statement.

    I also subscribe to the scope statement as suggested by Andy.
     
    tony s, Jan 22, 2018
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    Anna Wagstaffe likes this.