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Audit Checklist and Report

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Linah, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. Linah

    Linah Member

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    Hello Everyone,

    Would like to seek advise on the Internal Audit Report. I'm performing Internal Audit. I have no specific checklist, only Audit Report. Every internal auditors have to complete the Audit Report with the NC or Observation if have.

    My idea is to have a one complete checklist report which consist of all clauses. If possible i would prefer to have less reporting but sufficient.

    Kindly advise.

    Thank you.

    HaLina
     
    Linah, Dec 12, 2017
    #1
  2. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't do it that way. If you want to use checklists as a guide make them according to each process.
     
    Golfman25, Dec 12, 2017
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  3. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Are you the internal audit process owner? If not you should seek guidance from the process owner.
     
    Andy Nichols, Dec 12, 2017
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  4. The PPAP Assassin

    The PPAP Assassin Active Member

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    I am waiting until after management review in January 2018 to do our internal audits. Reason is, there are a lot of requirements of the new standard that will be met during that management review including, risk management, COTO, quality objectives, and the new requirements for the management review itself.
    Our 2015 ISO audit will be in April next year, so I'll have time to collect evidence for any N/C that should arise from our internal audits.
     
    The PPAP Assassin, Dec 13, 2017
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  5. Bhuwan Sharma

    Bhuwan Sharma New Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2018
    Bhuwan Sharma, Feb 3, 2018
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  6. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    We usually advise against "canned checklists," especially those that just list all the clauses, because a given process will include some clauses and not others. That is probably why the process auditing method is encouraged. Additionally, I have never once met a process owner who is interested in seeing all of the clauses listed, and conformance/nonconformance of each indicated. I put an audit manager tool kit in the Resource forum.
     
    Jennifer Kirley, Feb 3, 2018
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  7. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Exactly so, Jennifer! Turning the standard into a set of questions is almost useless as a true internal audit tool. It doesn't deal with many aspects of a fully effective internal audit program and is likely to head people in entirely the wrong direction.
     
    Andy Nichols, Feb 4, 2018
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  8. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    If you have a copy of the standard, why do you need to transform the statements into questions just to identify if you have the relevant documents for each clause?
     
    tony s, Feb 7, 2018
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  9. Steven Severt

    Steven Severt Member

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    This is very helpful. I am new to my company and am currently building a very similar tool to improve our internal audit process. I was coming here to look for advice on how to structure the tool, as I was trying to determine whether or not it was best to audit by clause or by process. This tool is very thorough in that it checks each process against each clause. I would assume in this example that the schedule has each audit listed by process.
     
    Steven Severt, Jun 6, 2018
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  10. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    What has been posted is from a Certification Body. They have a 3rd party perspective on audits, not internal audits. Since 99.99% of people coming here are looking for internal audit help, it follows that providing a checklist from a 3rd party isn't going to be much help. Indeed, because the people looking for assistance don't understand the difference, using such a checklist becomes a HUGE reason why internal audits never do anything more than copy the CB audits. On top of that, CB auditors often see the similarity and think "all is good". And there it stops. Result? The full benefit of the QMS and internal audits is never realized.
     
    Andy Nichols, Jun 6, 2018
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  11. Steven Severt

    Steven Severt Member

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    That is very interesting. Even know both the internal and CB audits might share similar scope, context, and criteria, you are suggesting that they be handled differently? What are the biggest differences between the internal and CB audit? If I’m currently building tools for our internal auditors that are similar to the attached checklist, I might be creating the scenario, as you mentioned, that we are able to maintain certification but not fully realize the benefits of the QMS.
    t
     
    Steven Severt, Jun 6, 2018
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  12. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Rarely, if ever, do they share these things. The objectives are also poles apart. CB audits spend little/no time in actually planning their audits. They are, for the most part about compliance, only. Despite many CBs using a report which has some boilerplate language stating "the effectiveness of XXX could not be demonstrated", rarely if ever do auditors actually audit that aspect, with facts to back it up. Internal auditors know soooo much more about the company (in general terms). They have much more opportunity to prepare and consider the actual performance of the business, the challenges, customers and their needs, employee issues and so on. This can be very useful in planning audits which can make a huge difference. I could go on...

    It's a bit like the difference between going to a music concert vs being a musician playing...
     
    Andy Nichols, Jun 6, 2018
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  13. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Here are some of their differences:
    1. Objectives - CB auditors are paid to assess conformity with ISO 9001 requirements (that's why their certificate says "XYZ Company has been assessed and certified as meeting the requirements of ISO 9001"). Internal auditors objectives are more extensive. They need to assess conformity with the company's own requirements, ISO 9001 requirements and determine whether the QMS is effectively implemented.
    2. Depth - CB auditors don't necessarily need to be expert in the organization's operation. Internal auditors (as Andy said) "know soooo much more about the company"
    3. Raising NCs - CB auditors always need to tie all their nonconformity findings against ISO 9001 clauses. Internal auditors don't need to find an ISO 9001 clause to raise an NC.
    4. Providing OFIs - CB auditors refrain from giving specific approach to address an issue or NC. Internal auditors can provide more specific or technical approaches.
    5. Interested Party - Typically, the result of a CB audit is utilized to satisfy the requirements of the customer of the organization. Internal audit results are needed by the organization's management.
     
    tony s, Jun 12, 2018
    #13
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