1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
Dismiss Notice
You must be a registered member in order to post messages and view/download attached files in this forum.
Click here to register.

Acceptable Evidences of Leadership Committment?

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Hii Sing Chung, Mar 4, 2018.

  1. Hii Sing Chung

    Hii Sing Chung New Member

    Mar 4, 2018
    Likes Received:
    Trophy Points:
    On Clause 5.1.1 leadership responsibilities that cannot be delegated, I have received different opinions on acceptable evidences to demonstrate compliant, from different consultants.

    May I know if these actions are acceptable as evidences to demonstrate leadership commitment as required in clause 5.1.1:
    1. Issue letter of appointment to a MR so that all these required activities be carried out by the MR.
    2. Get the personal secretaries to issue and respond e-mails to all staff to communicate the important of QMS effectiveness and conformance. This is the reality when top management do not communicate directly to the staff but through secretaries; the MR needs to make appointment with the respective secretaries in order to meet or talk to the top management staff.
    3. Risks, threats, quality objectives, contexts of organization are only discussed and established during the Quality Review Meetings with business unit heads and MR. In another words is it okay a group of people mostly non-top-management staff meet to discuss and establish those required activities which are imposed on the top management? In another scenario, is it okay for MR just list out all risks, threats, objectives, contexts then let the top management pick and choose?
    4. In real life, top management will not want to be involved in doing these works but will assign to someone else to do. Is it okay that top management can simply issue a directive to say that all these requirements of commitment are assigned to the MR and auditors just need to look at the evidence of assignment?
    5. In former version of ISO9001, the MR must be from the organization's management. In 2015 version no MR required, however if company must have an MR does it mean that it also doesn't need to be a member of the organization's management?
    6. When looking at evidence of leadership committment, do we have to establish that the committment is effective, only then consider compliant? For example, there are evidences that top-managemnet are taking measures to reduce the work stress of workers but evidences are also showing that the measures are not effective - workers are still under stress, do we consider this committment as compliant or non-compliant? It will be very easy to demonstrate committment if there is no need to show ineffectiveness (as we can always claim it to be effectiveness with evidences, if no need to show evidences of ineffectiveness).

    Appreciate any help in clearing my doubts.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  2. yodon

    yodon Well-Known Member

    Aug 3, 2015
    Likes Received:
    Trophy Points:
    There's a lot bundled into these questions so it's a bit difficult to give a direct answer. My thinking is that "shall demonstrate" is key. How is the management team demonstrating leadership and commitment with respect to the QMS? Are they providing sufficient resources (human, equipment, facilities, workspace) to enable proper execution of the QMS? Are they engaged (committing resources, monitoring status, etc.) in ensuring effectiveness and ongoing improvement?

    Your last item is an interesting one. Is management truly trying to understand what's causing the stress and taking appropriate actions? As you indicate the actions are not effective, are they reviewing the data and looking for different, more effective actions? Or are they just doing something like putting up posters saying "work smarter" to try to reduce stress then saying "oh well, we tried" when the actions are not effective? Stress is often caused by an over-commitment of management (impossible deadlines, etc.) frequently resulting in unrealistic expectations on employees. Are they accepting responsibility for the stress?

    I don't think is wrong or bad to have someone assigned as Management Representative as long as they also have the authority (can they assign resources, spend funds, etc.?). Still, if there were issues and management 'blamed' it on the MR, this would NOT be demonstrating leadership or commitment.
    Andy Nichols likes this.
  3. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Jul 30, 2015
    Likes Received:
    Trophy Points:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    You can't get away from LEADERSHIP demonstrating commitment, plain and simple. I'm guessing it may be a cultural response, but trying to make a case why LEADERSHIP isn't LEADING is a problem.