7.2 Competence.

7.2 Competence.

OK I need your thoughts. We are a small team and all the brains in the outfit have wedges of documents proving their competence. Then there is me!

I have moved so often I have no paperwork proving I have any qualifications relating to my role as the guy getting 9001 up and running and doing some IA.

How should we approach proving I am good for the role? Is personal testimony from the company owner and chief mechanical designer ( we only have 1) any good? I worked with them both in the past when I implemented 9001. I could write a CV but who tells the truth on them? Truth is I qualified as a Lead Assessor of Quality Systems in Jan 1991, I was on the course when Desert Storm kicked off.

 

Nice

Nice reply I just wanted current thoughts. You are right. I have a nice certificate from Microsoft saying I know stuff about Access. I do but I would never claim to be competent.

 

Idk. In my state to get your drivers license you have to pass a driving test where you demonstrate competence. Granted, the competence requirement is extremely low, but you still have to show you kind of know what you're doing.

 

Of course. But driving is probably a good, everyday, real world example. It's not a memory test. We learn, "train," to drive. We demonstrate our ability in a five min. excursion with the state DMV. Then they let us hit the road. At that point we are minimally competent -- we have met all the state requirements. No different than an employee demonstrating competence at a certain task after been trained to do it. What happens after is anyone's guess.

 

As per ISO 9000:2015, competence is defined as the "ability to apply knowledge and skills to achieve intended results" with a Note that "Demonstrated competence is sometimes referred to as qualification".

The statements below made me think why ISO 9000 use the word "sometimes":

 

I was asked recently by a particular consultancy firm if I have an updated certificate on ISO 14001:2015 since they want to engage me in an EMS project. I told them that, from 1999 to 2002, I've worked before in an organization that provides consultancy services that install environmental programs to facilitate acquisition of environmental compliance certificates from our country's Department of Environment, been providing consultancy/training services (as freelance) for ISO 14001 since its 1996 version, have attended a lead-auditor course on ISO 14001 on 2002 and have assisted organizations for certification to the 2004 and 2015 versions of ISO 14001. Unfortunately, they still want me to have an updated certificate on ISO 14001:2015.

 

Graham i had the same question, i previously was a production supervisor for multiple companies and have a talent for production, manufacturing, quality, and process improvement. this is my first (real) management role at age 23 i was worried about how to prove my competence. but through work spear heading ISO certification process and displaying to top management i can do what i said i was going to do. mind you i have no college just a (very) good resume. thank you for asking this question it helped me out a great deal along with the answers.

 

You've been a quality analyst/auditor from 1981-1989, a corporate quality manager from 1982-2001, a Malcolm Baldrige awardee in 1996, a lead auditor for a known CB since 2002 up to present, not to mention your experience before 1981. If I will engage you to audit for my organization, what would you feel if I ask you "Do you have a certificate that will convince me that you are qualified to audit against the ISO 9001:2015 version?"

 

Okay. But what would you feel if I asked you that question?

Attending a training for new versions of ISO standards, IMHO, is just a waste of time and money for those who have been setting, implementing and auditing systems relevant to such standards from the previous to the latest versions. A person, competent with his/her trade, only need a copy of the latest version to study and update his/her methods and approaches.

 

So honest question here, you would raise a Major Non conformance for my company for me not having college, schooling, or some sort of certificate saying i can do the job? if
Even though i have facilitated and managed the development of the QMS and been the spear head of the operation? if yes how would i satisfy the standard in terms of my competence
Would that not be display of competence? i have recommendation letters from VP of operations from my last job and PHD chemical engineers, does this count towards competence?
Im sincerely worried now, would be embarrassing to have a non conformance because of me....

 

Here's the problem -- it's in the question. "Did you take any training?" That implies I went to a class somewhere, somehow. So now I am subject to a "Major" because I can't show a pretty certificate. Guess what, I didn't and we implemented the 2015 version just fine. I didn't need any formal training, I just read the stinking standard. Maybe asked a few questions here to clarify things.

Now for me, having been to a few rodeos, if you asked me that question, I would push back and tell you a class isn't required but I can read and know what I am doing. But for the uninitiated (me many years ago) I would answer your question with a "no," and if you didn't follow up adequately, we would start arguing about a major and I would be really confused and irritated. Maybe the question should be a little simpler and open ended, like -- "how did you learn about the new changes to the standard?" That allows for all sorts of answers -- I took a class, I hired a consultant to teach me, I read a book, etc.

 

I never needed to learn 2008, as i was still in junior highschool, and Also my company has never had an ISO certification.