1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
Dismiss Notice
You must be a registered member in order to post messages and view/download attached files in this forum.
Click here to register.

24hr Data Loggers - Do I need to calibrate my equipment through third-party??

Discussion in 'ISO 17025 - Calibration and Test Laboratories' started by Killian O'Leary, Jan 28, 2021.

  1. Killian O'Leary

    Killian O'Leary Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2020
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Hi Everyone,

    We have a new 24hr cloud based environmental monitoring system (%RH and Temp) hooked up to all our fridges/freezers and stability chambers, the probes of which are calibrated annually by a ISO/IEC 17025 certified lab and the certificate contains the below statement. My question is do i need to get a different third-party calibration provider to do the 12 month annual calibration/verification as was done before we had the monitoring system if we now have the monitoring system. We are a recently accredited 17025 lab.

    "________laboratory is an ISO/IEC 17025:2017 Calibration Laboratory Certified by American Global Standards (AGS) and accredited by The American Association for Laboratory Accreditation (A2LA). This accreditation demonstrates technical competence for a defined scope and the operation of laboratory quality management systems. The standards that have been utilized in this calibration are certified by, or are traceable to, the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), and meet or exceed manufacturers’ requirements for the above mentioned item. This calibration does not take into consideration measurement uncertainty (Simple Decision Rule). The Expanded Measurement Uncertainty listed is the combined standard uncertainty multiplied by a coverage factor of 2 (k=2) which defines the interval having a confidence level of approximately 95%. Although the item(s) calibrated meet the specification and performance at the time of calibration, due to any number of factors like aging, temperature, shock and contamination, the listed due date of the item calibrated does not imply continuing conformance to specification during the interval listed. Should any earlier or additional recalibration be required, please contact __________ for factory calibration and re-certification traceable to NIST."

    Thanks in advance,
     
  2. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Messages:
    718
    Likes Received:
    511
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    Upper Midwest- USA
    Good day @Killian O'Leary, and welcome to the site.
    Congratulations on the ISO 17025 accreditation. No easy task.

    Let me see if I understand your question correctly...
    1- Your organization has been having %RH and Temperature probes calibrated annually by an ISO 17025 accredited lab.
    2- Your organization has recently added a cloud based interface, which monitors the %RH and temperature (and, presumably sets off an alarm or sends a
    notification if any conditions migrate outside those established?)
    3- Since the addition of the cloud based monitoring, you are asking if you need to change to a different certification lab, now that the cloud based monitoring is in place.

    If my understanding is correct, then the answer is "no". There should be no reason why the monitoring system would cause the current ISO 17025 certification lab be invalid.

    Is my understanding of your question correct or are you asking specifically about the verbiage within the certification that implies a more frequent calibration is needed?

    Please advise.

    Thank you.
     
  3. Killian O'Leary

    Killian O'Leary Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2020
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Thank you for your swift reply. See responses above.
     
  4. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Messages:
    718
    Likes Received:
    511
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    Upper Midwest- USA
    [QUOTE="Killian O'Leary I'm basically asking can I eliminate having the annual calibration of these units done by the third party calibration lab if we are now using this 24hr monitoring system that is NIST traceable and deemed accurate? Assuming the calibrated probes are switched out before their calibration due date. [/QUOTE]

    Thanks for clarifying @Killian O'Leary ;
    If I understand correctly then no, you would not be able to eliminate the probe calibration.

    I'm not concerned about the monitoring of what the probes are reading, but instead, about the probes themselves. I do not see how the cloud based monitoring system can verify and calibrate the actual probes. Unless there is a capability I am not aware of, the individual probes would still need calibrated.

    Hope this helps.
    Be well.
     
    BradM likes this.
  5. Killian O'Leary

    Killian O'Leary Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2020
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Hi John,

    Thank you for explaining, that was my thought originally and thank you for clarifying. You input is greatly appreciated.

    Kindest regards,

    Killian
     
    Andy Nichols and John C. Abnet like this.
  6. Sakshi Verma

    Sakshi Verma New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2021
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Location:
    India
    As far as the measurements are concerned the readings taken should be very accurate and correct. To execute the measurement process we use scientific instruments that are dedicatedly designed for measuring the different parameters.

    While measuring these parameters it is very important to check the accuracy of the measuring instrument. For the correct working of any measuring instrument, it is very important to calibrate the device regularly.

    There are various methods to calibrate the measuring instruments, you can either refer to the manual or visit the provider's website.
     
    BradM likes this.
  7. BradM

    BradM Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    317
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Location:
    Arlington, TX
    I agree with John. Unless I’m missing something calibration is still required.

    I would keep a set of replacement sensors (offset due dates) to change out.

    Unless you wish to have a service come onsite and calibrate the full loop in place.
     
    John C. Abnet likes this.
  8. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,071
    Likes Received:
    723
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    USA
    I regret this response is old, but American Global Standards is not accredited for 17025 under IAF. Certificates they issue should be researched, as they may not be valid.
     
  9. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    5,166
    Likes Received:
    2,590
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Indeed, they are "alternately" accredited by AIAO-BAR which is similarly not under any MOU with the IAF.
     
  10. QueenOfQuality

    QueenOfQuality Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2022
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    2
    The short answer is yes. If calibration has expired you can do temporary validation against a calibrated probe to ensure your data is valid, but you would still need calibration by an external supplier.

    Also for your next inspection - make sure the cloud based system has been fully validated. There are some systems (mentioning no names) that are easy to bypass the alarm and when you review the data it only shows for the last day, not the last 24 hours - leaving you open to deviation.