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Upkeep of ISO 9001:2008 during Transition TO ISO 9001:2015

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by lukeb, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. lukeb

    lukeb New Member

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    We have applied to transfer our 9001 certification to another body, due to concerns with our current body and their current auditors. We are in the process of transitioning to 2015, the new documents have been rolled out, new audit schedule etc. The new body have advised us that a transfer audit will need to be carried out for the 2008 standard (certificate expires end of Feb), followed by a transition audit for the 2015 standard. They have set 3 days for all of this to be completed in the first week of Feb 2018.
    My question is, if we are now working to the 2015 standard, are we supposed to be running the 2008 standard alongside it, so we can meet their transfer audit requirements. This would mean 2 QMS’, 2 audit schedules, 2 lots of documents.
    Should I be responding to them to say we are now running to the 2015 standard and that the transfer audit for the 2008 certificate will not be applicable; Therefore we would like them to complete the 2015 transition audit and re certification only?

    I must stress, that the processes that were currently set for 2008 version were in place before my time at the company. I have worked to reduce these into a more manageable amount and therefore some of the documents have significantly changed. The day to day "stuff" has not changed at all, purely the way things are documented and the things that we define as processes have.
     
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    It may be a simple case of "semantics". Your new CB contact is thinking/saying what they must do - transfer your ISO 9001:2008 certificate and, at the same time, perform the upgrade to 2015. Without knowing the size of the company I'd guess that 3 days is reasonable (2 for the "transfer" reassessment and 1 for the upgrade). I'd find out who your auditor is and call them for a chat, but I suspect there's nothing at odds here.
     
  3. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    No need for two set of approaches. Just implement your QMS against the 2015 requirements. No need to obtain certification against the 2008 version, thus no need for the "transfer" audit. Proceed directly to the 2015 audit like a new customer of your new CB. Your CB should know better unless they want to get additional income from your company.
     
  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Not sure I'd agree, Tony. A "new" customer will have to go through a quote process, stage 1 etc. An upgrade audit can be accomplished without all that, with some small amont of time added. The IAF have a well defined set of requirements for CBs to complete when handling the upgrade audit.
     
  5. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    Registrars (CBs) approach it differently from each other, so the CB is the place to start with this question. I have no idea why this one is suggesting a transfer to the old standard first. For myself I can say I am no longer doing audits to the 2008 version. Just upgrade. the new version has almost all of the old requirements anyway, just stated differently.
     
  6. David Sheaffe

    David Sheaffe Member

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    I certainly agree with Jennifer that every CB will approach things differently and I would suggest talkingwith them why they are approaching it in this manner. From my perspective (as someone who has gone through a similar process). It does make sense to me that the CB initially just does a "transfer" of the certification - which would mean auditing to 2008 - and then a transition audit to transition to 2015. While it sounds a roundabout way of doing things each of these in isolation should be a relatively simple exercise. The initial transfer shouldn't be much of an audit and is more a documentation exercise to review your previous CBs audit reports and check corrective actions and management review - the transition to 2015 should also be a relatively simple exercise of just auditing the "gaps" between the 2 standards to make sure that you have them addressed (eg, risk based thinking, etc)

    If the new CB took the approach of starting with you a a fresh client, I am assuming that they would want/need to do a complete certification audit - which would know doubt take much more time.

    My only concern is that I am not sure why you think you need 2 sets of audit schedules and documents. I would have thought that anything that you have in place to comply with the 2015 version - would cover the requirements of 2008. Although just like CBs, almost every company approaches their QMS differently.
     
  7. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    The 2008 version expires in September 2018. There is currently an overload to do the upgrade audits. For this reason the CB might elect to transfer with 2008 version initially; however, this will not buy much time. Most people I work with are set to do their upgrade audits by mid-June 2018. For this reason I recommend not waiting to transition internally; the few things 2008 has can be maintained (the manual, the six procedures and the assigned Management Representative) but the rest of it is part of 2015 in some clause/ language or other.
     

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