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Topics on Management Review must be itemized as per Clause 9.3.2

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by tony s, Jan 23, 2017.

  1. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    A CB auditor raised an issue concerning our minutes of the management review during our Stage 1 audit. He told us that the outline of the minutes of the meeting must be similar to the sections of clause 9.3.2 Management Review Inputs - that the minutes must have sections corresponding to the letters, including numbers, as indicated in clause 9.3.2. Example: clause 9.3.2f) opportunities for improvement must have a separate section instead of integrating it with the other topics.

    I would like to post it here to get your comments so I can also present your valuable inputs to my team.
     
  2. pkfraser

    pkfraser Active Member

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    Tony

    What a load of rubbish. Do what suits you, not the CB.
     
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  3. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    If the auditor issues a nonconformity for that, it would be an excellent item for a dispute because the standard does not say how the management review outputs will be done. Auditors will need to get used to recognizing conformance when we see it. It would help if the client was comfortable with defending their methods; that is, walk us through it and help locate the parts where the required outputs are demonstrated. If they are hard to recognize and all we have is powers observation, we tend to rely on expectations.
     
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  4. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Actually, we tried to walk the auditor through our minutes. But he still insisted that the minutes should be able to clearly show that each letter from a) to f), including the sub-numbers of c), are separately outlined. He even told us that by assigning the exact letters and numbers as specified in 9.3.2 will make the minutes easier to audit.:mad:

    Yeah I know what I should do with the CB. I just want to share with you that even we're already in the 5th version of ISO 9001, we still encounter auditors who still live in the past.
     
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  5. MCW8888

    MCW8888 Well-Known Member

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    That's a lot of auditor nonsense. The auditor must ensure that you have conducted the management review according to your plan. You do not do things to make it easy for the auditors. They have to find objective evidence that your Management Review is effective. As a matter of fact I used the Management Review plan that you published in this forum. I appealed the Management Review Audit during our upgrade to 2015 and won the case. The organization does not work for ISO. ISO works for the organization.
     
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  6. PSRiordan

    PSRiordan Member

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    There is of course no such requirement- only that you retain documented information which demonstrates you are covering all of the topics.

    That being said, the standards doesn't say all topics have to be covered at the same frequency, does it? Some items might be covered every meeting, such as quality objectives. But others only once a year.
     
  7. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    I agree. You can also check this topic and this topic
     

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