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Standard for excluding the clause from ISO

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by siba shankar sahu, Mar 5, 2019.

  1. siba shankar sahu

    siba shankar sahu New Member

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    1. Admin and Security, HR, Finance, IT and Tech, F&I, Customer Support, Design, and development - not in scope

    2. The operation, QA, Training is in scope
    • Q- 1 - So we excluded Clause 8.3 & Clause 8.4 of ISO 9001:2015 is it right process?
    • Q- 2 -Is there any standard for excluding the clause from ISO or is there any limit of excluding or according to the organization requirement we can exclude as we wish.
    • Q- 3 -Do we need to exclude Clause 8.5.1 (f) of ISO 9001:2015 because of Clause 8.3 & Clause 8.4 already is excluded
    • Q-4 - Clause 8.5.1 (f) of ISO 9001:2015 - is for ??
     
  2. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    The only thing you can officially exclude are the design related clauses. If you have a clause you feel isn't applicable, it is just that, not applicable. But you should have something in place to resurrect the clause in the event it does become applicable.
     
  3. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    True, however, despite what word you use, one thing which is missing from this OP is the justification for any of the "missing stuff out"...
     
  4. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Since it is a requirement to specify the products/services covered in your QMS scope, you will need to include all the processes that are needed to produce your products/services. If you exclude:
    • Admin - can you operate without procuring office equipment, without the necessary infrastructure?;
    • Security - can you operate while anybody can just walk into your offices and steal something?;
    • HR - can you operate without hiring the necessary people or without payroll?;
    • Finance - can you operate without budget?;
    • IT - can you operate with computers that are malfunctioning?;
    • and so on...
    Before excluding anything, you have to take into account this statement in clause 4.3:

    Conformity to this International Standard may only be claimed if the requirements determined as not being applicable do not affect the organization’s ability or responsibility to ensure the conformity of its products and services and the enhancement of customer satisfaction.
     
    KyleG, Neo113016 and Andy Nichols like this.
  5. Prudence

    Prudence New Member

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    The 8.4.1 c) refers to the processes or parts of the processes a company decided to outsource. The outsourcing is performed when a company decide to hire another company to do something on it's behalf. For example, if you have a car repair shop and decide to outsource the painting and bodywork on the car, you can hire some other car shop to do that for you. Outsourcing allows a company to specialize in some processes and let others do the rest, this results in better quality and decrease of price of the product or service. But this processes must be controlled and the provider of such processes must be evaluated as any other supplier.
     
  6. siba shankar sahu

    siba shankar sahu New Member

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    thanks for the valuable inputs
     
  7. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Hi Prudence: This is a great post. What many overlook is getting a balance of control between what the supplier does and what the (buying) organization can and needs to control. We do this when we visit a grocery store, for example. We usually don't inspect much when dealing with packaged foods, maybe just the condition of the packaging. On the other hand, fruits and veg go through evaluation in the store. We have to use the date codes on dairy items and so on.

    Of course, many seem to believe that auditing a supplier is necessary and nothing could be further from the truth. If selecting supplier who are ISO 9001 (or similar) certified, all that means is that you shouldn't have to perform supplier development to bring them up to an acceptable level of quality assurance (I had suppliers who couldn't even spell "calibration, for example"). There's no need to audit them (which is why they went for certification in the first place) as it should only be used in extreme circumstances - when if all else fails, and you've had a history of poor performance and ineffective supplier corrective actions, you decide to find out why!

    Evaluating actual performance - what the supplier actually does for you, is far more use than any certification, or audit can tell you (despite what people think). An audit is, after all, a simple snapshot in time - a bit like the photograph on a driver's licence. Not the best you looked on the other 364 days of the year...:D
     

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