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Sending QMS documents to customers ??

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by xrat86, Nov 21, 2017.

  1. xrat86

    xrat86 Member

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    We recently successfully passed our ISO9001:2015 certification audit.

    We have our certificate.

    Question -
    Is it customary to send to our customers (current and potential) at the time of bidding our QMS documents (manuals, procedures, etc,etc, etc...)?

    I ask because our sales team is requesting such. Our quality team responded that the certificate should suffice, taking the position that the certificate represents a QMS that adheres to the ISO standard. I concur with the position of the quality team.

    Opinions?
     
  2. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Good day xrat86;
    In short, NO, this is not typical.

    The management system is for the guidance/benefit of your organization and may even include proprietary information.

    Hope this helps.
     
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  3. Pancho

    Pancho Active Member

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    I agree with John. Still, clients may need to know that your QMS is more than just a certificate. Seeing how you have all this documentation, your sales team may simply want to put it to use. But there are better ways than divulging secrets.

    We have a "Quality Plan" document that we do send to clients (current and potential). This document includes a short description of our QMS, the quality policy, our org chart, a description of key processes, and a list of attributes, controls and records kept for each of those processes. No proprietary information is in this document. We attach it to most bids or quotes.

    Additionally, we prepare a "Quality Dossier" for each current client during execution of their work. This dossier contains the actual records mentioned in the QP that evidence their product's quality and compliance.

    The above is usually more than enough to help sales and satisfy the most demanding clients.
     
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  4. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    I've used an approach similar to Pancho's in the past along with the line of "Additional details will be provided upon request" or something to that effect. If this is the first step in the bidding process, this line basically says that you don't kiss on the first date. You're providing some basic information and if they like what they see, maybe you'll show a bit more on the next round.
     
  5. normzone

    normzone Well-Known Member

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    All of the above is correct.

    Also, any process documentation your sales team wants to send may not be what the (potential) customer would like to see.

    When I'm scouting potential suppliers, I like to ask for evidence of an internal audit, and corrective actions both from an internal issue and a customer issue.

    I learn something no matter how they respond. If they go all "ooh, that's confidential, we could never trust you with even redacted documents" then I know what a relationship with that supplier is going to be like should I choose to buy from them.

    And if they provide what I asked for, I can see not only if they're doing it, but get a feel for how they're doing it, as well as reassurances that the company is willing to be forthright with me.
     
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  6. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    No I don't think it is customary, but I guess it depends on what the customer/potential customer wants. Most of it is just paper pushing.
     
  7. normzone

    normzone Well-Known Member

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    Sad but true - while sometimes your opinion is desired because they actually are trying to decide between two suppliers, usually somebody has already made the decision to buy from that source, and now they are hoping your due diligence will not demonstrate they made a bad decision.

    I have gone on the record before with " You are crazy to buy from these people, good luck with this " and been proven correct, but there's little to no satisfaction in that. I'd rather be asked to review suppliers I can give glowing endorsements of.
     
  8. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    You can tell 1000% more from a visit, walk thru and an actual conversation than from some "documentation."
     
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  9. xrat86

    xrat86 Member

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    Thanks all for the responses and experiences.
     
  10. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    You might want to take some time to educate your sales folks. Speaking from experience in the role, they are often "out in the cold" when it comes to the reasons for a QMS and the associated certification.
     
  11. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    It's no doubt the purchasing folks are asking for such documents.
     
  12. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    Perhaps, but the team responsible for responding to such requests should be supported in providing a suitable/appropriate response (i.e., you don't show everything about your organization in the bid).
     

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