1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
Dismiss Notice
You must be a registered member in order to post messages and view/download attached files in this forum.
Click here to register.

Scope of the EMS per 4.3

Discussion in 'ISO 14001:2015 - Environmental Management Systems' started by Somashekar, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. Somashekar

    Somashekar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    98
    Trophy Points:
    27
    The FDIS says ....
    Once the scope is defined, all activities, products and services of the organization within that scope need
    to be included in the environmental management system.
    The scope shall be maintained as documented information and be available to interested parties.
    This I feel is the crux of the EMS. I am looking at some new examples of the Documented Scope which is in line with the FDIS. The A4.3 does provide an eye opener, but I seek to see some fine examples / typical examples.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2015
    Somashekar, Aug 3, 2015
    #1
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    5,109
    Likes Received:
    2,562
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    I'm not sure the scope is going to read any differently than before, Somashekar. If an organization is seeking ISO 14001, for say "Manufacture of stampings", this isn't going to be affected and they will still need to consider the environmental aspects and impacts of that - waste materials, energy consumption, etc. etc.
     
    Andy Nichols, Aug 3, 2015
    #2
  3. Somashekar

    Somashekar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    98
    Trophy Points:
    27
    If the scope here does not look different, then I am afraid the needed changes that the new version expects will not get the focus. The one way the leadership can demonstrate leadership and commitment with respect to the environmental management system is by such a scope document that captures all the relevant areas as in the 5.1 of the FDIS in the context of the company. Perhaps the Note as below in the 5.1 must make one to take a fresh look at the scope and keep the scope regularly reviewed. I would care less to the words in the environmental policy, and pay more attention on making a very appropriate scope document...
    NOTE Reference to “business” in this International Standard can be interpreted broadly to mean those activities that are core to the purposes of the organization’s existence.
     
    Somashekar, Aug 4, 2015
    #3
  4. Randy

    Randy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Location:
    Greenwood Arkansas
    The scope is nothing more than what is intended to be managed by the system. Think of the scope as a fence and the management system and what's being managed is contained within the fence.

    Worry and concern yourself over more potentially important isues and requirements
     
    Randy, Aug 4, 2015
    #4
    charanjit singh likes this.
  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    5,109
    Likes Received:
    2,562
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    In 7+ years of "scoping" clients EMS (QMS and few a few other MS's as well) I've yet to see one which worried me (for the most part). I guess I really don't understand the concern.
     
    Andy Nichols, Aug 5, 2015
    #5
    charanjit singh likes this.
  6. Sidney Vianna

    Sidney Vianna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    172
    Trophy Points:
    42
    I believe the scope that Soma is talking about is different from the one that Andy is speaking of.

    Andy is talking about the scope of certification in Soma is talking about the scope of the EMS.

    Two different things.

    In the past, there have been cases of organizations "fencing" product lines out of the scope of certification and the actual certificate did not clearly stipulate the coverage of the certified EMS.

    While 4.3 does not prohibit limitations on scope of certification, it clearly states that the organization can not neglect parts of it's operation when managing its environmental issues.
     
    Sidney Vianna, Aug 13, 2015
    #6
    Jennifer Kirley and Somashekar like this.
  7. Somashekar

    Somashekar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    98
    Trophy Points:
    27
    Thanks Sidney. The leadership has to get a good understanding of what is physical boundary and organizational boundary, in determining the scope of the EMS. This may have a direct impact on the compliance requirements too.
    If the outcome of the scope review of the EMS recommends no changes., then I guess. there is a great chance that the new version has not been well understood
     
    Somashekar, Aug 13, 2015
    #7