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Requesting PPAP's from competitors

Discussion in 'APQP and PPAP' started by Celeste, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. Celeste

    Celeste Member

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    How do other companies approach asking their competitors for PPAP's? For example, you purchase widget "x" from a competitor because you cannot make it and need it to supplement your product line. I would think your competitor wouldn't supply you with all of the 18 PPAP items, nor would they allow you to audit them.

    Thoughts on how you would handle it or how you are handling?
     
  2. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    Have them supply what they will supply.
     
  3. Eric Twiname

    Eric Twiname Well-Known Member

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    Agree with Golfman, but expanding a bit...

    If you could buy the parts from someone else, you likely would be doing so already.
    That said, they are likely your sole source (else you'd being buying elsewhere).
    And as a sole source that you are dependant on.....tread lightly.

    There's no harm in asking (I hope....it is possible that there IS harm even in asking...people are people, after all.)
    But if all you get is laughter in response...think about how you can get what you need without their participation.
     
  4. MCW8888

    MCW8888 Well-Known Member

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    If your competitor is also a supplier, then you can include what PPAP requirement you need in the contract. I will ask them for a PFD, PFMEA and Control Plan. How about including the process capability?
     
  5. Eric Twiname

    Eric Twiname Well-Known Member

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    And what would you do when they send you a "No thank you, have a nice day".
    They don't have to sell to you, they would likely rather sell to your customers.
     
  6. MCW8888

    MCW8888 Well-Known Member

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    What is their service level agreement with your supplier? It is in clause 7.4.1.2 of the TS standard. You need to prioritize the suppliers require PPAP's for those that are critical to the products delivered to the OEM. If you do not comply with this requirement, The risk to QMS is delivering substandard product to the customer, risking product recall.
     
  7. Eric Twiname

    Eric Twiname Well-Known Member

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    It seems that you are forgetting....your competitor is not required to be your supplier. It is an option that they can just refuse your PO.

    The question in the OP is how to handle PPAP AND maintain your supply.

    If you insist on a PPAP from a competitor, they have three options:
    1. Ignore you
    2. Submit PPAP
    3. Stop supplying you.

    #2 is easy
    #1 is the above discussion
    #3 is where your approach is likely to lead.

    Just because you write it into the contract does not mean they have to sign the contract.
     
  8. hogheavenfarm

    hogheavenfarm Well-Known Member

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    True - and where I have seen this end up - company does not put it in the contract (since it would aggravate the supplier, and likely increase the price), then QM has to figure out how to get it afterwards, since they really need it. I am constantly in this position with PSI's, material certifications, and welding certs, all of which our customers require, but is never put in any contracts for the reasons above.
    Try visiting a supplier for a PSI which is not in the contract (exactly what I am doing today), long trip to be turned around at the door, then the boss screaming why you didnt inspect the product before it was shipped to us... and do not point out that it wasn't in the contract, that seems to be irrelevant...
     
  9. johnnymo77

    johnnymo77 Active Member

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    We have a few competitor/supplier/customers. They are TS16949 and Tier 1 to Ford or other OEMs. PPAPs are provided, usually with the Control Plan or the PFMEA marked as proprietary. We visit the company to see it or sometimes review via webex.
     

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