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  1. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm seeing some information touting that remote Certification audits are the future. Of course, there are some side benefits, mainly cost related, since travel and accommodation are zero.

    Shouldn't we be concerned that having an auditor based remotely from the auditee is far from being even close to effective? For years, people have noted and complained that "my auditor never left the conference room. We simply brought documents to them to view". Isn't that the same as a "remote audit"?
     
  2. RonR Quality Pro

    RonR Quality Pro Active Member

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    I agree that remote audits have some benefits (as you pointed out) however I am not a fan of them for several reasons. The most glaring one to me is the difficulty to do a followup investigation into something that just 'turns up' during the course of the regular planned audit. And I (personally) get a good feel for a place when I walk in the door, speak to a few employees in person, and have a look around and the overall condition of the workplace.
     
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  3. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Ha! Good analogy @Andy Nichols ;
    Well, here in the COVID era (man I'll be glad when we're done talking about this), I have indeed performed some remote auditing. I would have clients pull up (screen share), documents that I needed and/or e-mail them to me "real time". Overall, the remote auditing has gone quite well.

    HOWEVER, I still miss out on inflection, observations "around the room", ..and that sense that only comes from face-to-face.

    I like to think of myself as extremely diligent, prepared, and effective when it comes to auditing, but regardless of how remote auditing has gone for me, I still estimate they are 30% less effective than on-site.

    In another scenario, I had a client whom 3rd party remote auditing was performed on. It was disastrous for them. The auditor simply hid behind his screen and bloviated, not wanting to see evidence that was offered. So, I can see greater variance (even more than already experienced with on-site) between auditors and how audits are managed.

    I agree with your analogy, and as nice as it is to simply audit from here, I sincerely hope remote is NOT the future of auditing.

    Be well.
     
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  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    My fear is that Certification Audits are already relatively ineffective - we hear all the time about invented requirements leading to non-conformities, lack of expertise in CB auditors, etc., - so to increase the barriers to the audit being effective is not what's needed. I see the allure of technology, for some, but as @John C. Abnet attests to, the lack of or diminished opportunity to "read" people, see the surroundings and so on will only contribute to an increasing lack of effectiveness. And let's not even discuss the aptitude of the auditor in using the technology!
     
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  5. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    While I don't disagree with the benefits of reading a room - or people - from the on-site and in-person audits, we cannot ignore the benefits associated with remote audits. Beyond the obvious cost savings, it does open doors to a global pool of auditors that could improve auditor availability and shorten wait times (for firms that have smaller numbers of auditors).

    The current process of remote auditing is far from perfect, but it is a step in the new direction and one that cannot be ignored. Perhaps we need to rethink the role and scope of the external auditor as well as the accountability and responsibility of the internal auditor. If internal auditors were more, let's be honest here, competent and were subject to professional reviews of some sort, perhaps, just perhaps, we could put more onus on them and shift the external auditor to lighter scope of review.

    I'm sure there are a few that will read my brainstorming offering and roll their eyes at such a naïve solution. To them, I suggest focus more on solutioning than complaining - and by solutioning, I don't mean "go back to the way we've always done it." As was indicated, even if the external auditor was on-site, with the numerous complaints of never leaving the board room, it can be inferred that even on-site/in-person audits were far from perfect. My idea is perhaps not practical, but neither is returning to our pre-COVID way of auditing.
     
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  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually I think you might be onto something here. The formula of days - usually spent on site - is no longer a constraint. The audits might now be conducted as a string of smaller scope events, conducted over a longer period - many smaller "bites" at the pie, perhaps?
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2021
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