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Registrar Requirements & Two Certification Audits

Discussion in 'IATF 16949:2016 - Automotive Quality Systems' started by Hampton, Apr 14, 2016.

  1. Hampton

    Hampton Member

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    Hello!

    We are new to the TS game so I'm posting several threads in hopes of gaining a better understanding through the rich experience displayed on this forum. This thread contains two questions:

    1) If we opted to keep our ISO 9001 registration, would/could we have our surveillance audits for both ISO 9001 and TS 16949 at the same time, or would this be a separate audit altogether? If separate, would/could we keep our existing 9001 auditor?

    2) The IATF Automotive Certification Scheme specifies that, before a Stage 1 certification audit may take place, the client must have evidence of one 'full cycle' of internal audits to the TS standard. What is meant by full cycle? Our current procedure specifies that we internally audit a minimum of once per year: is that a full cycle? (I've heard annually, bi-annually, etc).

    Thank you all so much!
    H
     
  2. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    1) You can do your surveillance audits at the same time. It will likely add a few hours.

    2) Full cycle is that you audited everything to be audited prior to the certification audit. You don't necessarily need to wait a year.
     
  3. David Sanabria

    David Sanabria Active Member

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    First: What are your customer requiring you to have (ISO or TS or Both)

    Second: Do you have a registrar in mind - is so talk to them about consolidation - if your customers agree to it
     
  4. Englishman Abroad

    Englishman Abroad Member

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    Hampton,

    ISO TS is additional to ISO 9001; Hence you can as Golfman says a combined audit (in reality you will only do the ISO TS audit as it encompasses all requirements of ISO 9001; Although you may have parts of your business that only comply with ISO 9001 because they are not automotive - you will need to explain this to your CB), and you will recieve 2 certificates (ISO 9001 & ISO TS).

    In addition to have completed a "complete" internal audit cycle of all processes (i.e. Audited all processes, completed corrective actions and verified their effectiveness), you will need to have proof of monitoring of your process effectiveness (KPIs). Initially you will undergo a stage 1 (on site paperwork verification of the QMS documentation) and stage 2 audits (on site audit of all processes) BUT if you do not have 12 months KPI data you will only receive a letter of conformance to ISO TS. (This is normal).

    The year after that you will have an other audit, and receive the official ISO TS certificate.

    It is also allowed (in the IATF Rules) to have your CB perform an initial assesment audit prior to the official stage 1 audit, although this must be done by a different auditor.

    Get in touch with a few CBs to see how they plan to help you with your initial certification. (Especially as we are now post ISO 9001 :2015 and there will be a new version of ISO TS 16949). However you must use a CB that has IATF recognition. (See IATF website for the list). In my experience Automotive customers do not care which CB you use.
     
  5. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    One full cycle to me means that an organization has completed the audit activities from planning, execution, to reporting the results of the audit to top management covering the three types of audit (e.g. QMS audit, manufacturing process audit and product audit).
     
  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Do you mean a "pre-assessment"? (aka "pre-audit")
     
  7. MCW8888

    MCW8888 Well-Known Member

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    1) If you want to save money, contact your CB and upgrade your ISO certificate to ISO/TS16949. You will then have 1 certificate covering both ISO9001:2008/TS16949. But why don't you wait until the TS16949 is revised. In that way you will not put in a lot of work in the planning.

    2) Full cycle audit means that you have to audit the Customer Oriented processes, Support processes and Management processes and their effectiveness.
     
  8. Englishman Abroad

    Englishman Abroad Member

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    Hello,

    Andy is correct, I meant a "Pre-audit / Pre-assesment" as detailed in the IATF Rules section 6.3 when I mentioned "initial assessment audit".

    Sorry for the vocabulary error in my initial post, but I did not refer to the rules when writing my post, just my bad memory.
     

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