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Recertification in transitioning

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Qualmx, May 11, 2018.

  1. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Hello members
    Could someone explain, If when being into the certificate allowed dates(2008), is it possible to get the recertification doing a transition to iso 2015+ the second surveillance audit?
    The transition audit could be used for certificate?
    Where can I find this specific information?
    The cb works under Anab rules.
    Thanks
     
  2. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    If I got it right. Did you mean if an organization is currently certified to the 2008 version and will undergo its 2nd surveillance, can they choose to proceed to the transition audit to 2015? I believe they can instead of maintaining their 2008 certificate. They can arrange that with their certifying body.
     
  3. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Tony s
    Well the question was for the next:
    My Cb did the second surveillance and the transition. But....
    Because the certificate is due in September 2018, wants to do an additional audit for the recertification, while others CB's, consider a second surveillance + transition as if it were the recertification audit.
    Why CB's manage different criteria for recertifications?
    Really , Cb never explained us clearly this process.
    Now , I have no option to choose other cb because expiration time of certificate is in September 2018.
    Really I feel very disappointed.
    Any suggestions?
     
  4. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    ANAB is allowing upgrades to take place on surveillance audits so long as additional time is added (could be 35%) and the original certificate date is then maintained. That means you would then have to do your recertification audit 3 years after your last certification audit, even if that is just one year from now. If your CB offers that option, they should have explained it to you and might still be able to do that.

    You will likely find it quite difficult to get a new CB now. The imminent expiration of 14 September looms too near for comfort, and we are at full steam (I have zero room in my calendar) especially for the sake of those who put off their audits until now.

    That said, in my direct experience CBs find the surveillance+extra time option attractive because it helps space out the crush of recurring recertification audits 3 years from now.
     
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  5. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Organizations always have the option to choose their CB. Your top management is the "audit client" as per ISO 19011:2011 - organization or person requesting an audit.

    Check the validity period of your contract with your existing CB. If it only covers up to surveillance or transition, then the contract is only valid up to this period. If they want you to undergo a re-certification audit, then that means they want to have a fresh 3-year contract with your company.

    If you need to get another CB but with a risk of getting a new 2015 certificate beyond September 2018, that should not be a problem. A two or three months wait for a new certificate should not be a problem. Should you opt to get a new CB and receives a "recommendation for certification" from them, you can request an "attestation or confirmation" certificate from the new CB while waiting for the release of the new certificate. You can use the attestation certificate if a customer needs to verify certification with ISO 9001:2015.
     
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  6. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Jenny and Tony's
    Tony's could you explain a little bit what is attestation or confirmation?
    For the purpose to go with other Cb, all of them only offered me full recertification audit, but... Impossibe because short allowed time, but never heard what you said as an option.

    Thanks
     
  7. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    An attestation or confirmation certificate declares that an organization has been recommended and just waiting for the official certificate of registration to an ISO standard. This can be issued by the CB while they are processing your certificate.

    Why "impossible"? Since you already have a functioning QMS and, I assume, already done some transitioning activities, you can just select a new CB and audit your company against the 2015 version. If your 2008 expires on Sept 2018 before you obtain the 2015 certificate, would that be a problem?
     
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  8. Steven Severt

    Steven Severt Member

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    We did our recertification and transition at the same time. Our CB handled our transition as a second surveillance and recertification, and also used that time to check compliance to the new standard. We have multiple facilities on the same cert, so he gave his audit report for the first of the shared facilities and let us know that we were OK for recertification in 2008 AND for transition to 2015, but which was issued was contingent on what happened at the other facility on the cert, which is taking place this week. So, if our NC facility is compliant with 2008 as a second surveillance/recertification but not ready for 2015, then the entire company will be recertified in 2008 and we will have time to close open items and do an upgrade audit before the September deadline. If it is already compliant to 2015, the entire company can be issued the 2015 cert during this audit.
     
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