1. Hello and Welcome to The Quality Forum Online...Continuing in the spirit of People Helping People !
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You must be a registered member in order to post messages and view/download attached files in this forum.
Click here to register.

"Quality Objectives"

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Gerald, Mar 9, 2016.

  1. Gerald

    Gerald Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2016
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    2
    In reviewing a checklist provided by a potential CB, I came across a portion of the list that is slightly confusing. There is a section designated solely "Quality Objectives and Operational Performance Trends". I may be interpreting this wrong, but wouldn't the objectives of the QMS be tied into the QA policies and the related procedures? I may have answered my confusion with my own question, but in an attempt to establish a QMS that is focused more on what will work for our company and our customers rather than what a standard says, I want to make sure there isn't something I am missing when the time comes that the conformity to the "standard" is important.
     
  2. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    588
    Likes Received:
    663
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Let me ask this, Gerald...How will your organization determine if objectives have been met? It goes beyond saying "Yay us...we did it!" or "Darn...we'll do better next year." Data is needed to support the organization's ability to ascertain if objectives were met. This data can be found in reviewing performance metrics - results, trends, etc.
     
  3. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    1,993
    Likes Received:
    1,036
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    What's the purpose of the checklist?

    If it's to assist the auditor at a stage 1 audit then they will (or should) ask what the objectives are and also that you have evidence that the management system is delivering results. Let's not miss the point of a stage 1 audit which is to ensure the system has been operated long enough to give results. The provides confidence that when they return to verify compliance of the processes and controls, it can be concluded that the performance was because the QMS was being used effectively.
     
  4. David Sanabria

    David Sanabria Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    7
    Yes - the checklist that is provided by the potential CB - is usually done by you and the lead auditor of the CB...

    Quality objectives and Operational Trends - look at 9.1.3 Analysis and evaluation of the standard as a starting point and ask yourself - what are my goals and have we achieved them - (this is what the auditor would be looking for) but more important - develop a team of management and leadership to evaluate goals, achievement and opportunities for improvements (Risk Assessment should be part of that process).

    HINT: Dashboards works great fo some companies...
     
  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    1,993
    Likes Received:
    1,036
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Not all CBs use checklists of course.

    I'm waiting to know what audit this is for...
     
  6. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    652
    Likes Received:
    468
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Location:
    USA
    Even though this Performance-based Management Handbook is a 2001 document, its content looks relevant today.

    One thing I'd like to point out is the word trends. This is a hint that we will need to look at performance over time; some organizations will need to change how they collect and report results, if only based on that single word.

    Since the standard is peppered with qualification terms like "as applicable", "relevant" and "as appropriate" I will be looking less at conformity to the standard and more to what the client has defined in the Planning stage. A checklist will not be of very much use for that, except to provide a means to organize information.
     
  7. Gerald

    Gerald Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2016
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Stage 1 audit.

    We have objectives and we chart results relevant to those objectives so I guess the next step is to put those objectives down on paper.

    Thanks.
     
  8. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    1,993
    Likes Received:
    1,036
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    At the stage 1 Audit, the auditor is going to verify that a) you have objectives and b) that you've sufficient performance from your QMS processes to show that you're headed towards achieving those objectives, or have some plan to address any shortfall. This is, in part, to prevent a major at the stage 2, for having ineffective QMS process(es)
     
  9. Leonid

    Leonid Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    7
    Gerald, at Stage 1, a CB shall evaluate if the management review process is being planned and performed. One of management review inputs is information on the performance and effectiveness of the QMS, including trends in the extent to which quality objectives have been met. This may be the origin of the subject matter on the checklist.
     
  10. QMSmaster

    QMSmaster Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    7
    Do the objectives have to be "quality" objectives such as scrap, yields, complaints, etc? Can ones objectives be simply "business" objectives such as sales, growth, profits? Out of curiosity, is anyone willing to post what they use as their objectives? HAving clear quality objectives has been a weak pint for my new employer in past ISO audits.
     
  11. David Sanabria

    David Sanabria Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    7
    Read post # 4
     
  12. QMSmaster

    QMSmaster Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    7
    I did earlier before I posted.
     
    Andy Nichols likes this.
  13. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    1,993
    Likes Received:
    1,036
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    These are NOT quality objectives, are they? You can include them, however, sales isn't a function of quality (I know I'm in sales). Growth isn't a function of quality, although you won't grow without it, it's a by product of doing customer satisfaction. Profits is also less to do with quality. The jobs can be right but you made no margin doing them...
     
  14. David Sanabria

    David Sanabria Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    7
    1. Stay focused on Quality Goals / objective - (Think of manufacturing / services processes)
    2. Get management to focus on what adds value to the product / process - continual improvement.

    3. sales, growth or profit??? -- What is management going to do when it does not meet the goals????
     
  15. QMSmaster

    QMSmaster Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    7
    This is the conversation I am after. Would process metrics like cycle time or efficiency qualify as a Quality Objective from an ISO perspective?
     
  16. David Sanabria

    David Sanabria Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    7
    yes
     
  17. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    652
    Likes Received:
    468
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Location:
    USA
    Objectives are related to actions, projects, initiatives, strategy... profit is outcome, not necessarily reflecting quality or an initiative. A business article in the Houston Chronicle provides a discussion on the subject.

    If profit was all that mattered, "cooking the books" (like Enron etc.) can get it done but improving how we do our work is generally considered more lasting. If an increase in growth or sales was a simple goal, we might purchase a competitor. And many do operate that way. But a more robust objective might be to increase return sales, or reduce customer defection rate.
     
  18. Leonid

    Leonid Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    7

    The new requirement in Cl. 6.2.1 says: "The quality objectives shall: d) be relevant to conformity of products and services and to enhancement of customer satisfaction". This message enables me to say that quality objectives are necessarily reflecting quality.
     
  19. Paul Simpson

    Paul Simpson Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2015
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Actually I'd disagree. The examples quoted are indicators that the organisation is on track to achieved its (as yet unstated) objective of right first time (for example).
     
    Andy Nichols likes this.
  20. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    390
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Location:
    Laguna Philippines
    What is ISO perspective?

    ISO 9000:2015 defines Objective as "result to be achieved" with a Note that "An objective can be strategic, tactical or operational". Quality Objective is then defined as "objective related to quality" with a Note that "Quality objectives are generally specified for relevant functions, levels and processes in the organization". Quality is defined as "degree to which a set of inherent characteristics of an object fulfills requirements". An Object is any entity that is either conceivable or perceivable (e.g. product, service, process, person, organization, system, resource) with a Note that "Objects can be material (e.g. an engine, sheet of paper, etc.), non-material (e.g. conversion ratio, project plan, etc.) or imagined (e.g. future state of organization).

    From these definitions, I believe, a quality objective can be set for any kind of object such as "cycle time" or "efficiency". My answer to your question is YES.
     

Share This Page