Dismiss Notice
You must be a registered member in order to post messages and view/download attached files in this forum.
Click here to register.

Quality Manual

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Rajan Gupta, Apr 24, 2018.

  1. Rajan Gupta

    Rajan Gupta Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2016
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Hi everyone,
    I am drafting a quality manual and need suggestion from the senior members and expert.

    We are a subsidiary company and while defining the organziation context .
    So what is the best way to start with it should i go with defining the parent company history first or our company.
    Please guide on same.
     
  2. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    977
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Hello, Rajan.

    ISO 9001:2015 does not require a quality manual. So the question that several here will ask you is "Why write a quality manual if it is not required?" If your organization has found a way to gain value from the quality manual, please share that with us. :)

    If your organization is determined to have a quality manual, is your parent company registered? Can you use their manual in some way?

    If your organization is determined to have a quality manual and cannot use the one from your parent company, all you probably need to say is that your organization is a subsidiary of Company XYZ and focus solely on your own organization's details.

    Unless the parent company is the one that dictates the terms of your organization's Quality Management System, it's your organization's scope to define and details to provide. And if the parent company is more involved in your QMS, I go back to my question about using their manual.
     
  3. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Messages:
    714
    Likes Received:
    351
    Trophy Points:
    62
    I think many companies find a quality manual useful as an organizing document. It can contain the basic outline of the system. Ours is primarily a cross reference where everything is handled along with the quality policy and other stuff.
     
  4. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    977
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    All very valid points, yet is it not possible to create an outline in an electronic folder on the organization's network where such resources, documents, and supporting information can be found and maintained? I feel as if our history with ISO 9001 has had a Quality Manual requirement for so long that it is now seen as the only solution to laying the foundation to a QMS. Too often over the years, I have heard people say that the Quality Manual adds little, if any, value. So, if it is no longer a requirement, why do we continue to use it? Our challenge is to find alternate QMS solutions that will continue to add value to the organization, not create busy work.

    Does the Quality Manual engage us...motivate us...inspire us?

    Consider the attached example of Apple and the Golden Circle. Apple starts with Why and then moves outward. Most of us start with What and move inwards. The Golden Circle can be applied at the higher, organizational level and also down at the more detailed, individual level. So, let's look at a Quality Manual...

    What - A Quality Manual that addresses all the requirements.
    How - By repeating the standard's requirements and highlighting how our company meets them. We add links, too.
    Why - Because it says what we do.

    In this order, it's a difficult sell. Now reverse them and think about WHY the organization has a quality manual. WHY it adds value. The WHY is unique to an organization. It could be to engage stakeholders, to introduce new employees to the QMS, to provide the framework for how we sustain both our business and a culture of innovation...

    Why - We believe in developing and implementing routine best practices, while fostering a culture of innovation and forward-thinking.
    How - By engaging our employees and other stakeholder, along with trend analysis and opportunity recognition.
    What - We just happened to outline all of that for you in this awesome manual.

    I'm still not 100% sold on the Quality Manual approach, but the second approach would have me believe that an organization have given some thought behind how to actually use the document beyond the oft said statement of "it helps out the auditors." And, if I had to guess, the manual would be a much better read than one that essentially paraphrases the standard.
     

    Attached File(s): 1. Scan for viruses before using. 2. Report any 'bad' files by reporting this post. 3. Use at your own Risk.:

  5. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Messages:
    714
    Likes Received:
    351
    Trophy Points:
    62
    You just put more thought into our quality manual than we did putting it together. :)

    I suppose it depends on what a quality manual is these days. I know we are well past regurgitation of the standard. Ours is pretty simple. Starts with our quality policy, let's people know where to find electronic and the hard copy of documents, a one page description of things like our scope and exclusions, an org. chart., process map, and a matrix showing where each clause is addressed in our procedures, work instructions, etc. We keep one hard copy in a binder, mainly for audits as it is easier for outsiders to access. Behind it, we keep a hard copy of all of our relevant procedures.

    When making the decision to keep it, we where guided by IATF as it will be a requirement for some of our customers.
     
    tony s likes this.
  6. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Messages:
    432
    Likes Received:
    292
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Location:
    Upper Midwest- USA
    Good day all;
    I (as have many of you) have been doing this for a long time (prox. 25 years). I never have and still have no idea know what is meant by a "quality manual" and the purpose of it.
    Oh, I know what the standard (now IATF) is asking for and I've written many, and I understand what is "literally" required. However, to quote RoxaneB's well articulated statements...
    Our challenge is to find alternate QMS solutions that will continue to add value to the organization, not create busy work.
    Does the Quality Manual engage us...motivate us...inspire us?


    The amount of "overthink" and effort which I see companies struggle through to create a required "quality manual" that provides no value to the organization, is disheartening. Even in regards to a quality manual for IATF, I council companies to not create an additional/redundant/stand-alone item with a boldly emblazoned title "QUALITY MANUAL" .
    The IATF (yes, I'm off topic), requirements for a quality manual are...
    a) The SCOPE of the quality management system...
    Many organizations already have a procedure/written process defined around clause 4 or 5 or 9(.3) which can simply include the defined scope. No need for a separate document.
    b) DOCUMENTED PROCESSES established for the quality management system.
    Many organizations already have a multitude of controlled documentation that makes up the written text portion of the management system. No need to create separate/redundant documentation.
    c) ...PROCESSES AND THEIR INTERACTION.
    Many organizations already have a procedure/written process/matrix defined around clause 4, which defines the processes and their interaction. No need for a separate set of documents.
    d)...CUSTOMER SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS.
    Many organizations already have a procedure/written process defined around clause 4.3.2 which is actually specific to customer specific requirements, that identifies where/how CSR are addressed. No need for a separate document.

    At MOST I council clients to create a single sheet document, called "quality manual", which simple points (roadmap) to where these items exist .

    The specific requirement for a QUALITY MANUAL is redundant to the IATF auditable clauses and the requirements within, which already requires each of the four required quality manual items to be addressed. The verbiage/specific to "shall include a quality manual" is simply silly.

    Digression complete, soap box dismounted. Thanks for the chance to vent.
     
    Andy Nichols likes this.
  7. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    3,671
    Likes Received:
    1,856
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    That RCB post says it all. If I might also add - a blogger I spoke to on this very subject concluded that a Quality Manual should be like the "quick start" guide you get with some appliances - sufficient information to get the reader headed in the right direction, point them to the user's handbook for details etc.
     
    RoxaneB and John C. Abnet like this.
  8. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    977
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    I like that approach.

    For right or for wrong (from a politically correct standpoint), I often refer to a Quality Manual as the organization's bible. It may not tell you how to do something but it can help point you in the direction of what is "right" or "wrong".

    I might start referring to them as mall maps, instead. It won't tell you how to get somewhere and you'll still need to figure out where you're trying to get to, but you'll know where you are in the standard or QMS. *lol*
     
    Andy Nichols likes this.
  9. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1,171
    Likes Received:
    867
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    Laguna Philippines
    Really nice post RoxaneB. If I may use an analogy, I would compare a Quality Manual to a Constitution. It sums up the basic laws or policies of the organization but the details are defined in the specific implementing rules and regulations or procedures.
     

Share This Page