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QMS roadmap(ish) thing...

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by xrat86, Jan 20, 2021.

  1. xrat86

    xrat86 Member

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    So, an inquiry for you seasoned quality professionals. We received our ISO certification and have a defined and functioning QMS implemented (obviously). I am thinking we could benefit from a roadmap(ish) / maturity thing...not sure what to call it. I have sketched a few charts and graphs to see if I can better define it to no avail.

    Here are my concerns and why I think it would be helpful -
    In the past we have been reactionary to ALL audits
    Future internal audits, surveillance audits, and certification audits will certainly find some areas to improve
    - If they identify or suggest it, we did it. Regardless if it fit or added value

    I want to proactively address this by responding to any such event with my roadmap(ish) yet to be defined thing as evidence that we have a robust QMS and the opportunity identified, although it was discovered under the guise of a (quality) audit, is outside the current scope of the QMS. At such time as the MS matures to the level to include the suggestion it will be considered.

    I don't think simple statement like that ^ is sufficient without evidence to support, something that tracks the evolution of the QMS.

    Of course NC's will have to be addressed, this is more for the nice to have's.

    Example (if you wish to read on) -
    Our customer sent a supplier quality engineer to audit us, he had a background in automotive, specifically fasteners and torque. We use fasteners A LOT and he sent us down a rabbit hole chasing torque values and wrenches and marking and blah blah blah - value add = ZERO. But that was was his comfort zone, we had little to no ammunition to defend our position.

    Many thanks in advance for your time.
     
  2. xrat86

    xrat86 Member

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    ^ Ha, so I am reading this and there is no inquiry.

    Is it useful, beneficial and / or effective to have something like i describe related to QMS maturity?
     
  3. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Good day @xrat86
    You are wise to recognize a problem with doing something simply for the sake of doing something (i.e. satisfy an auditor or whim without benefit to the organization). Don't do it.

    If I understand the intent of the question, you are asking..."but what about the good or potentially good ideas that are documented as Opportunities for Improvement ?"

    If that is your question, then I would suggest the following...
    Don't add layers of additional fragmented documentation. See where this may "fit" into your existing activities. Does your organization have a quality improvement ledger, task force, etc...., where these "ideas" could be documented and vetted for viability?

    Hope this helps.

    Be well.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2021
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  4. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Not for the sake of QMS maturity. QMS maturity can be measured via the data that is important to your company (quality performance, OTD, efficiency, customer satisfaction, profitability, etc..etc..).

    An effective QMS (QMS maturity) ...
    a) should not change what is important to your organization but simply add benefit to how what is important is managed and the resultant outcome.

    Additional evidence of a QMS maturity, is evidence that ..

    b) "a)" sustains over time, even as associates change. (i.e. the QMS is systemic and not built on an individual(s) )

    Hope this helps.

    Be well.
     
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  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Well... to me, maturity is developed through a couple of things, mainly through an effective (and efficient) Management Review process. Having said that, your described situation with the supplier QA can be used to describe a level of internal auditing which goes beyond what most achieve - for many reasons. Of course, one feeds the other: Audits -> Management Review -> Improvements

    In my experience, having a really effective Management Review process and results should be the goal. That will tell you lots about other aspects, including a lot about your management/supervisory culture. #AreYouReadyForThis

    Too much emphasis on audits, is like relying on QC to inspect quality into product... Sooo last century!
     
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