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QMS and Safety Committee

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2008 - Quality Management Systems' started by drgnrider, Jan 27, 2016.

  1. drgnrider

    drgnrider Member

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    Reviewing my last audit in preparation for my upcoming 9001:2008 audit, I ran across this comment from the CB auditor and all the flack I received from my management:


    Safety
    EHS Manager and a safety committee are made up of various employees throughout the facility. Emergency evacuation plans are in place and available for employees and posted throughout the facility. This includes Fire Evacuation and Weather Emergency. TV monitors are placed at various locations throughout the facility for employees informational needs. Each Monday the EHS Manager issues a tool box talk for departments to review required safety topics with employees.


    This was not an finding, so it was brought to management's attention as an observation, an atta-boy. This comment caused more discussion and outcry than anything else on the report, claims of over-reaching, outside of scope, etc. I did question the CB auditor about the questioning of the "safety aspects", they claimed it was part of 6.3 Infrastructure and 6.4 Environment. I didn't press the issue as it was not a non-conformance.

    I know there is no "SHALL" or even mention of "safety" in the standard, but I can see both the "stretch" as well as the logic. Comments.....
     
  2. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    Seems like superfluous comments to me. Just summerizes what you do - not good, not bad. I wouldn't worry about it.
     
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  3. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    There are rare cases where safety subjects can become part of a quality audit, based on product preservation. Examples include shelving with load ratings established and properly secured, hoists weight tested & inspected and kept in good repair, and fork trucks maintained and inspected. The extent of involvement with QMS involves not personnel safety, but not allowing the product to fall to the floor and get damaged. Your CB's remarks were, in my view out of scope. I would hope your auditor gets some kind of correction.
     
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  4. drgnrider

    drgnrider Member

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    Thank you for the replies.

    @Golfman25 - I wasn't worried as it wasn't anything more than an observation.

    @Jennifer Kirley - Safety, only in how it affects the product vs. how it relates to the people themselves.

    I viewed this from the standpoint of, if an unsafe workplace people would be more worried about their safety and surroundings and less about their quality of work, if they are even present or not on restricted duty (can't get the product out the door on time). Welding 12’ above the floor on a horizontal cylinder (fall-protection) or moving a 10’ x 6’ x 1/2" steel plate over the top of someone (lifting)… too much lack of safety and people pay less attention to their quality. Sort of fits into another thread about turn-over.
     
  5. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    That works with the 2015 version, but even then the references to human environment are notes, not shalls.
     
  6. Leonid

    Leonid Active Member

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    Good examples! Also, producs will be harmed if due temperature and humidity are not maintained in the storage.
    As regards safety for workers it can influence on conformity to product requirements when production is stopped due to incident at a work place and this will affect the contractual delivery time.
    In all these cases "the organization shall determine and manage the work environment needed to achieve conformity to product requirements" (quoted by 6.4).
    Thus, there is a room for auditiing safety issues.
     
  7. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    Agree - temperature and humidity are absolutely considerations for preservation, depending on what is being stored.

    However, I consider the basis of potential lost production because of safety incidents out of the scope of 6.4. TS 16949 added 6.4.1 to include personnel safety; ISO 9001:2008 is silent on that. Even in the 2015 version, references to human considerations for work environment are only included as notes and are thus nonconformities cannot be issued to them. But of course you know that.

    We could consider the organization's taking actions to meet objectives if one of them involves time; time to market, cycle time, on-time delivery etc. This may be approachable if management review shows a high injury rate, or illness from industrial hygiene issues. However, it is not advisable to audit to safety codes as we are not regulators, and safety has its own standard.
     
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  8. MCW8888

    MCW8888 Well-Known Member

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    I find it rather hard to "bolt" safety to infrastructure (6.3). However it might have a link to 6.4-Personnel safety to achieve product quality (6.4.1). For example it can be related to (7.2) Product safety issues, operating safety (7.5.1) and packaging safety (7.5.5). If an auditor has to make a note worthy comment it should be associated with how effective is the process in mitigating recordable incident that impact the delivery of the product or service.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2016

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