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Not eligible..."scrap metal suppliers"

Discussion in 'IATF 16949:2016 - Automotive Quality Systems' started by John C. Abnet, Oct 1, 2019.

  1. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Good day QFO team;

    I need your input please...
    SI 14-15 (8.4.2.3) indicates the words "as applicable" were added specific to section 8.4 "to address those organizations who are NOT eligible for IATF 16949 certification...(...including...scrap metal suppliers..)."

    1- Contrary to the SI, the term "as applicable" does not seem to appear (I believe instead the authors of the SI meant to say "eligible" , which does indeed appear in the first paragraph.)

    2- So, as 8.4 is written (and augmented by the SI), I interpret this to still consider the minimum requirement of "scrap metal suppliers" as "certification to ISO 9001 through third-party audits..."

    What say all of you?

    Thank you.
     
  2. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    You could read it that way, but I would take a narrower reading. "Scrap metal suppliers" are a breed in and of themselves. You might be hard pressed to find one ISO 9001 certified.
     
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  3. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    John, how is a scrap metal merchant a supplier to an organization? I can't see the relationship in IATF terms. Help me...
     
  4. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Good morning @Andy Nichols ;
    The organization is an aluminum billet manufacturer. They are IATF 16949 certified and purchase/utilize post industrial scrap, post consumer scrap, and prime as "raw material" inputs.

    Their sources (suppliers) provide the scrap and prime.

    Thank in advance for your council.

    Be well.
     
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  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks for the clarification! What's their scope on the certificate?
     
  6. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    This may be my own example of having confirmation bias, but having spent 10 years working at steel mill (before jumping over into healthcare) that focused on using recycled metal, several of our scrap metal supplies were ISO 9001.
     
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  7. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    "Production of aluminum cast products"
     
  8. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for this feedback @RoxaneB
    (i.e. 10 years of avoiding the dire results of of "beaned by a cobble")
     
  9. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    Yup.

    I still miss the smell of steel in the morning...but I don't miss the fear of those pesky cobbles! Never turn your back to the line. *lol*

    Getting back to scrap suppliers, though, while we had some that were ISO 9001, we still recorded the observations from the receiving inspection, kept the paperwork that provided the details of the scrap (e.g., size, type, etc.), and we tried to organize the scrap metal yard to allow for some form of traceability. The consequences of dropping an improperly processed cylinder or tank into our melt shop ladle could have been disastrous. During winter months, we also looked at incoming deliveries to make sure we weren't receiving more ice/snow than scrap metal.

    Our Raw Materials Manager did an amazing job at maintaining solid relationships with our scrap metal suppliers, and would use the results of our inspections and any associated production quality issues as discussion points for improvement.

    Perhaps not quite as formal a process for supplier management as we had with our electrode suppliers or our maintenance contractors, but it worked amazingly well for us, and the scrap suppliers really did seem to understand that it was a highly competitive market, so working with us was in everyone's best interest.

    Those that weren't ISO 9001 received a bit more scrutiny from our scrap metals team (e.g., inspections, visits from our Raw Materials Manager, etc.), but they were usually still pretty transparent with us.
     
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  10. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Technically, they aren't a "scrap metal dealer", in that case. Yes, they do recycle, but it's unimportant in the grand scheme of things.
     
  11. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    I was reading John's question as being from the producer of the aluminum cast products who purchases from scrap metal dealers.
     
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  12. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Yep...Roxane deciphered my code (ramblings) correctly.

    The cast products producer does indeed buy scrap aluminum as a material input (content) of the cast products they manufacture.

    The scrap supplier, by rule, is not eligible for IATF certification, however, as I interpret the standard (and SI) they (scrap supplier) are still required to be ISO 9001 registered.
     
  13. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I am to so sure. This is a different perspective. In this case, the "scrap metal" is actually a raw material for the steel/alum making process. Not really different than the minerals they take from the ground to make steel. That is different from where I think the IATF people may have been coming from. At the production site, the scrap metal "supplier" is also the guy who picks up the scrap metal -- i.e. a service provider. The pick up guy probably needs less scrutiny than the drop off guy.
     
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  14. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I've not seen a situation where, under ISO 9001 or IATF 16949 the supplier who removes the scrap product needs to be ISO 9001 certified. If that is the case, then I'm going to retire early because the wheels - which were already wobbly with some silliness (IMHO) - have actually come off. The scrap has zero to do with the actual raw supplied aluminium.

    Added in edit:

    The scrap goes to a mill to be remelted and will have been tested for its properties. It's the mill who affect the quality and should be ISO 9001 certified (minimum), not their scrap suppliers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
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