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need suggestions on topic, "ISO 9001:2015 requirements from HR point of View"

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by S. Noor Mustafa Shah, Jan 5, 2017.

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  1. S. Noor Mustafa Shah

    S. Noor Mustafa Shah Member

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    need your all valuable suggestions or links to the resources related on topic, "ISO 9001:2015 requirements from HR point of View"
     
  2. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    Welcome to QFO!

    What are you trying to accomplish? Are you a Human Resources Manager?
     
  3. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Or are you providing manpower services?
     
  4. S. Noor Mustafa Shah

    S. Noor Mustafa Shah Member

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    I am HR Engineer in Pakistan, doing job in Procon Engineering Pvt Ltd.
    I have given an assignment to update the procedures (9001:2008 to new version) and address all requirements of standard related to HR.
     
  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Are you working with anyone on the update to ISO 9001:2015? To be honest, it's not something anyone here can assist you with. We don't know what your current procedures say and therefore it's difficult to say if anything needs changing. Since ISO 9001:2015 leaves the content and use of documented procedures up to you (your organization) it could well be that NOTHING needs to change.

    I could foresee that, perhaps, a document number is related to an ISO clause, which now might be different, under the 2015 format - for example, competence was in 6.2, but it's now 7.2.
     
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  6. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    The requirements for Human Resource processes are not fundamentally different in the 2015 version. You do need to identify internal and external relevant interested parties (stakeholders). That should not be difficult.

    Risk-based thinking (RBT) seems to be the point of concern. For that reason I located a Risk Management in HR site. How you choose to demonstrate RBT is up to you.

    I suggest the SWOT Analysis might also be useful for high-level HR planning. Internal and external issues can be pointed to in the SW and T portions. If you want to add blocks above to list internal relevant interested parties and external relevant interested parties, your SWOT would have 6 blocks but remain a simple living document.

    Please note how I said "relevant." Many people may be interested but would they have a way to impact the business, and if so how and why? Those are considerations to include. If your living modified SWOT document was to include this detail, it could be included in a departmental-level management review if appropriate, and updated periodically because relevancy can change based on internal and external issues. As interested parties move from one column to the other, our programs might change to meet these recognized changes.

    I hope this helps!
     
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  7. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    For procedures that are related to HR such as Hiring/Recruitment, Competence Management and Performance Appraisal should ensure that the following are addressed:
    • Adequate and qualified personnel are made available (clause 7.1.2, 8.5.1e);
    • Qualification criteria for hiring/recruitment are established (clause 7.2b);
    • Functional or job descriptions are well understood and supported (clause 5.3);
    • Processes (e.g. performance appraisal) for determining and provision of the needed interventions for employee on-boarding and development are in place (clause 7.2a);
    • Once interventions (e.g. training, mentoring, transfer to another assigment, etc.) are provided to address competency needs, the results of the interventions must be evaluated for effectiveness - did we achieve the expected results? (clause 7.2c);
    • Employees must understand their organization's quality policy, relevant objectives, contribution to effectiveness of QMS, benefits of improved performance, and implications of deviating from the requirements (clause 7.3);
    • Records demonstrating personnel competence are maintained (7.2d).
    These are the typical items that pertain to HR that are tied to the clauses of the 2015 version.
     
  8. S. Noor Mustafa Shah

    S. Noor Mustafa Shah Member

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    thanks @tony s for your comments.. very helpful.. if possible suggest me the document idea for these clauses...
    as i understand point 2 (clause 7.2b as job specification)
     
  9. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Before you start off looking at more documents, Tony has provided information that should be present in your CURRENT documents for your ISO 9001:2008 based QMS. Have you reviewed those to see how they stand against ISO 9001:2015?
     
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  10. S. Noor Mustafa Shah

    S. Noor Mustafa Shah Member

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    Dear @Andy Nichols , i have only training procedure which is not good.. it means that i have to start from the scratch...
     
  11. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    First, we start with what we know: Organizations need to provide resources in order to achieve their goals. Some of those are in the form of people and their needed competencies.

    The organization thus needs to understand its resource needs.
    - How do you plan for "talent acquisition"?
    - How do you keep track of what knowledge is needed?
    - How do you arrange to meet new or changed competency needs?
    - How do you know the needs are satisfactorily met?

    I have never seen an organization require a documented procedure to do this, though some regulated industries may want the structure.

    TonyS was right to list the clauses that apply. Job descriptions are very common, but I have also seen matrices used successfully; they can help provide nimble planning and a means to build a "skills library" for times when a new skill or project need arises and we want to avoid hiring a new person just for that.
     
  12. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    OK, so you weren't fully compliant to ISO 9001:2008, in that case, unless other parts of the organization have defined things like job or position descriptions and the competencies needed by people. Do these exist? How much documentation you need is going to depend on the amount of work HR does in relation to the rest of the organization and the impact on the quality of the product. HR is, in some organizations, more about pay, time cards, benefits etc. None of which has a single thing to do with product quality. You may only NEED a training procedure - and what makes you say that it's not good?
     
  13. S. Noor Mustafa Shah

    S. Noor Mustafa Shah Member

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    Yes JDs are prepared, organization charts (dept wise) are prepared, employee list (headcount) is complete... need the training and recruitment procedure as per requirements of ISO 9001:2015 or IATF 19646:2016... as it talk about competency records and contingency plan etc..

    i don't have recruitment procedure but only training procedure... training procedure consist of three parts
    1. ON JOB TRAINING.(process is: plan-->skill matrix-->attendance-->employee wise annual training records)

    2. In house (as per demand of department head or new technology) (process: need assessment-->plan-->trainer arrangement-->attendance-->add into record)

    3. External (as per demand of department head or new technology) (process: need assessment-->plan-->institute selection-->attendance-->maintain records)
     
  14. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    Why do you need a recruitment and training procedure?
     
  15. S. Noor Mustafa Shah

    S. Noor Mustafa Shah Member

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    I am responsible acting as ISO coordinator for HR department
     
  16. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    This isn't the answer, really. You say you already have a procedure for training. Why are you asking for more? Does the existing one address competency requirements? A recruitment procedures isn't required by an ISO or TS standard. You might want to check with your management to see what they have tasked you with and why you have such a long list of documents which aren't necessarily needed. Is a consultant telling you to do this, perhaps?
     
  17. S. Noor Mustafa Shah

    S. Noor Mustafa Shah Member

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    ok but how to address the points..
    competence, education, training, skills and experience record, and recruit employee to fulfill the effective qms implementation..
    how would i collect or extract.. that a channel i need which will be called as procedure
     
  18. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    I'm no HR expert but with my understanding of the process, I believe the typical recruitment process has the following steps (with the relevant ISO clauses):
    1. Need for manpower is identified (as determined by the head of a particular department) - cl. 7.1.2;
    2. Initiate request to source out needed manpower (the requesting dept will typically accomplish a Manpower Request Form; include justification) - cl. 7.1.2;
    3. Define the qualification criteria (if a Position/Job Description is available, this can be used as the basis. If not, the requesting department must define the qualification criteria) - cl. 5.3;
    4. Review and approve the request (usually management will need to review/approve before HR starts sourcing) - cl. 5.1.1e;
    5. Advertise that your company is hiring (can source out internally or externally by posting at bulletin boards, website, newspaper, etc.) - cl. 7.4;
    6. Evaluate applicants (using the applicants' biodata or resume, the HR personnel will initially perform the interview. Exams or test can be administered. The intent is to ensure that applicants are qualified as per the Position/Job Description. The requesting department performs the technical evaluation.) - cl. 7.2b, 8.5.1e;
    7. Secure employment records (once applicant/s is/are approved for hiring) - 7.2d;
    8. Endorse the new hire for induction (usually the new employee will undergo orientation on company policies, safety, job specific training) - cl. 7.3;
    9. Evaluate after completing the probationary period (this will determine whether the new employee is indeed appropriate for the job) - cl. 7.2c;
    10. Monitor performance (periodical appraisal will be given to determine whether the employee is performing as expected) - cl. 9.1.1.
     
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  19. S. Noor Mustafa Shah

    S. Noor Mustafa Shah Member

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    wow.. @tony s thanks for concise reply
     
  20. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    Thank you tony s!

    I suggest his good advice might be effectively followed with one or a set of checklists that could both be crafted in a way that provides adequate control definition detail and the format for helping to ensure the expectations are met.

    I would like to add that the ISO 9001 technical committee has included checklists in its list of suggested means to demonstrate RBT... hint hint
     
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