Dismiss Notice
You must be a registered member in order to post messages and view/download attached files in this forum.
Click here to register.

ISO/TS16949 & ISO 9001?

Discussion in 'IATF 16949:2016 - Automotive Quality Systems' started by alltrees, Mar 22, 2016.

  1. alltrees

    alltrees Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2015
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    2
    My company does work for automotive and non-automotive. My registrar is advising that I get ISO 9001 certificate in addition to the ISO/TS 16949 certificate. To do this they want to charge and allocate additional audit day to verify base ISO 9001 requirements. Is this a typical practice in the industry? Seems odd to me.
     
  2. Casana14

    Casana14 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2016
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Location:
    USA
    That's weird. Our registrar does both the TS and the ISO audits at the same time and gives us a cert for both. But then again we have various locations in our cert, some are ISO and some are TS. But that still doesn't make sense, since TS is just layering on top of ISO.
     
    Andy Nichols and alltrees like this.
  3. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Messages:
    715
    Likes Received:
    352
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Yes. During your TS audit they can only look at TS products and there are strict time requirements. To do the ISO part, they need to spend additional time looking at non-automotive products.

    Now a "trick" we found is that many customers don't really distinguish the two. So we passed on the additional expense of the ISO part. Have yet to have anyone complain or comment.
     
  4. alltrees

    alltrees Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2015
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    2
    This is really strange to me. The TS audits are fundamentally business process audits, also looking at processes and metrics related to customer product, but the TS requirements alone don't mean much if they are not fundamentally based on the ISO 9001 foundation. Hard for me to comprehend how they can be considered separately. Let me ask this question... Let's assume I have my TS audit there was a finding that my Quality Manual was not properly maintained. To what clause would a TS auditor associate that non-conformance with? The ISO requirement, or do they just ignore it not write a nonconformance?
     
  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    3,719
    Likes Received:
    1,886
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Only if you a) have a different scope and b) there's a different headcount for the non-automotive production.
    The time requirements are also "strict" for ISO 9001, so I'm not sure what your comment was supposed to convey.
    Do you have a different scope/headcount for ISO 9001 covered (non-auto) products? If not, you're dealing with the wrong CB!
     
    alltrees likes this.
  6. alltrees

    alltrees Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2015
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Scope/headcount is the same for both. Thanks for your comments, which do tend to confirm my initial concern and purpose for this discussion thread, at least at this point.
     
  7. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Messages:
    715
    Likes Received:
    352
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Obviously there is a lot of duplication with ISO and TS. That is why you are only being quoted an extra day and not an entirely separate audit. However, just take the manufacturing processes. TS has much more stringent requirements regarding control plans, PPAP, MSA, Preventive maintenance, etc. You wouldn't necessarily apply those same criteria to your non-automotive products (a good thing, imo). Things that would pass plain old ISO, won't work with TS. So they need to have time to look at both.
     
  8. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Messages:
    715
    Likes Received:
    352
    Trophy Points:
    62
    It's pretty simple. In many cases automotive products are produced to less stringent requirements than non-automotive products. An auditor needs to have time to look at both. Thus, the extra time to combine both ISO and TS in one audit.
     
  9. Sidney Vianna

    Sidney Vianna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    172
    Trophy Points:
    42
    The scope CAN'T be the same. For the TS 16949 certification, the scope of certification and the audit HAS to focus exclusively on the automotive product lines.

    As you mentioned in the original post that you also have non-automotive products, the scope of the audit and ISO 9001 certificate would have to be separate from the automotive products.
     
    Candi1024 likes this.
  10. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    3,719
    Likes Received:
    1,886
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    How did you come to this bit of information?
     
  11. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Messages:
    715
    Likes Received:
    352
    Trophy Points:
    62
    I live it every day. Been there, done that.
     
  12. MCW8888

    MCW8888 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2015
    Messages:
    642
    Likes Received:
    197
    Trophy Points:
    42
    We have an ISO/TS16949 certificate which means that when we established our contract with the CB we tell the CB that we do not need a separate ISO9001 certificate. Our company also supply OEM and non-OEM customers. This make sense because the foundation of TS16949 is ISO9001:2008. Recommend revising the contract with the CB and in the interest of cost, just have them issue one certificate to ISO/TS16949.
     
    alltrees likes this.

Share This Page