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ISO 9001 training: Looking for advice

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Lawrence84, Aug 18, 2017.

  1. Lawrence84

    Lawrence84 Member

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    Hi,

    I am currently in the position of SHEQ officer (15 months) for a manufacturing company.

    My previous back ground (with the same company i am currently with) was in technical advising customers on how to use our products to meet the building standards, whilst also dealing with the QC testing and external certification body audits

    Health and safety was the main drive when I took on the roll as it was almost none existent.

    The next step is driving the quality aspect through the company with the aim towards reaching
    ISO 9001:2015.

    First port of call will be working through the out of date quality manual, reviewing and re-writing all of the procedures etc.

    I am looking for advise on where I should start with external training and any advise in general as I start my career in quality.

    Thank you in advance.
     
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Why?

    Start with competency. What competencies are being developed? It's inappropriate to launch straight into training.
     
  3. Lawrence84

    Lawrence84 Member

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  4. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    I suggest the training before you rewrite a bunch of procedures and the Quality Manual.

    That is, if your documentation is largely written to reflect the standard and less about what you actually do. If that is the case, take your training and purge the ISO-related language and make them into business documents. That has always been the intent but many people got mired in the shalls along the way.
     
  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Might I suggest that there are organizations out there, like Bywater and others (the CQI is a good reference) who have practical, hands-on experience of IMPLEMENTATION who know more than many? Going to a certification body for training tends to put the auditor's spin on things, IMHO. That would be like designing a product through the eye of the QC person who has to inspect the product at the end of manufacture. Wrong perspective!

    I'm with Jennifer. Aligning documents with the standard is forcing a square peg into a round hole. A quality manual should be a "quick-start" guide to the QMS. "IF you want to know about "X" look here", kind of thing. Not a regurgitation of ISO requirements.
     
  6. Lawrence84

    Lawrence84 Member

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    Thank you for replying Jennifer and Andy.

    The current documents that we hold are how to documents (not written to reflect the standard), i might not of explained my self properly, the intention for rewriting/reviewing the current procedures is because they are not relevant to how we do the job now.

    Rewriting/reviewing them would be beneficial for us prior to seeking advise form an external company for GAP analysis (hopefully saving some time and money).

    I totally agree with the square peg into round hole comment.

    I have decided to change the the training course form "bsi iso9001:2015 requirements course www.bsigroup.com/en-GB/iso-9001-quality-management/iso-9001-training-courses/introduction-to-iso-9001-training-course/ " to "LRQA - new quality system manager" http://www.lrqa.co.uk/standards-and-schemes/iso-9001/training/new-quality-systems-manager.aspx

    Hopefully this will give me a better starting point for my training.



     
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  7. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    The LRQA training looks worthwhile. For a new Quality Manager, I also recommend the American Society for Quality's handbook for Certified Manager of Quality/Organizational Excellence. It makes a good desk reference after the class (or cert for CMQ/OE) is past.

    It isn't too soon to review the processes and do draft markups based on what you see now. It would allow you to ask "Why does it say we do that?" when it makes no sense. Then, after the course you can edit if you see fit and then send in for update. But I suggest leaving out any mention of ISO. The documents are supposed to be about you, not them.
     
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  8. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Lawrence84:
    Jennifer's comment about the ASQ is on point. If, by some chance, you're in the UK, I'd strongly recommend the Chartered Institute of Quality's courses, too. Once again, (even as an alum of LRQA) the ASQ and CQI are excellent resources for a new QM.
     
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  9. Lawrence84

    Lawrence84 Member

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    Hi jennifer and andy,

    I will invest in a copy of ASQ, im sure it will be a massive help.

    I live in the UK, I've been in contact with CQI who have sent me a list of courses. My only concern was that the courses seem more directed at certain elements of quality management https://www.quality.org/training/quality-courses
    im sure once I have a basic understanding of quality management I can then contact one of the approved training provider's and select one of the CQI courses that best suits my requirements.

    Thanks again for the advise
     
  10. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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  11. Lawrence84

    Lawrence84 Member

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    I looked into the CQI diploma but they was discontinue back in january 2017 which is a shame as that would of been my prefered option as it is a woldwide recognised qualification.

    Looking at the CQI 8 hour course and lrqa 3 day course, which do you think would be more beneficial to my circumstances?
     
  12. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd go for the CQI 8 hour one. I would believe it was a more "balanced" viewpoint. Certification Bodies, IMHO, tend to see the world through the eye of auditors...
     
  13. Karen Rawson

    Karen Rawson New Member

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    Hi Lawrence, I'm not sure about the rules here, but you asked for advice:
    I've done a series of webinars for my company on the key concepts of ISO 9001:2015, though they start from the assumption that you understand quality systems Those are at http://www.desaragroup.com/main-blog/ .

    I'm offering a 2-day Virtual Instructor Led Training program next week on implementing the standard. I know it's short notice, and it's being offered on US Central Time, but it might be a way that you could get some solid knowledge quickly - enough to know what you need next. You can ask questions in real time, and you'll have the recording to look back upon.
    That link is https://desaragroup.lpages.co/6-steps-class-overview/

    I agree with Andy that CB's see the world through Auditors' lenses. If you lead your company to do what makes sense for business success rather than for passing an audit, you'll do the right thing.
     
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