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ISO 9001:2015 Clauses pertinent to Supply Chain and Procurement

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Mustafa Kamal Pasha, Feb 17, 2020.

  1. Mustafa Kamal Pasha

    Mustafa Kamal Pasha Member

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    Dear members,

    I have gone through a checklist which defines ISO clauses pertinent to Supply Chain Management.

    Can someone confirm if those in red are relevant and if I am missing anything?

    6.2 Quality Objectives and Planning to achieve them ??
    7.1.6 Organizational Knowledge ??

    7.2 Competence
    7.3 Awareness
    7.5 Documented Information
    8.1 Operational Planning and Control ??
    8.4 Control of Externally Provided Processes, Products, and Services
    10.3 Continual Improvement

    Thank you.
     
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    What's the purpose of the checklist? To audit a supplier?
     
  3. Mustafa Kamal Pasha

    Mustafa Kamal Pasha Member

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    Hi Andy, no its an internal audit for supply chain.
     
  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I find that trying to "fit" ISO 9001 clauses to something is futile. An internal audit should be focused on the process as described by the organization and how effective it is in meeting the requirements set for that process. "Supply Chain" to me, is a broad description for a number of things, including processes, and difficult to audit. It doesn't have a "focus".
     
  5. Mustafa Kamal Pasha

    Mustafa Kamal Pasha Member

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    I agree Andy, but in order to raise a non-conformance or record a finding, you have to give it a relevant clause from the standard. Hence my question if above mentioned clauses are relevant?
     
  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Not in my book... Firstly, find what the issue is. Then report it against the QMS. That leads you to ISO 9001:2015 clauses. For what it's worth, no-one cares about what clause is affected. You could say what you like and no-one would disagree. If you were told in internal auditor training you must know the ISO clause number, they told you wrong - that's an external audit technique.
     
  7. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Clause 9.2.1a of the standard says:

    The organization shall conduct internal audits at planned intervals to provide information on
    whether the quality management system:
    a) conforms to:
    1) the organization’s own requirements for its quality management system;
    2) the requirements of this International Standard;
    From this requirement it is very well possible that a nonconformity can be set against a relevant requirement (i.e. company's own procedure, policy, including regulatory requirements), without the need to refer to an item in the standard.
     
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  8. Mustafa Kamal Pasha

    Mustafa Kamal Pasha Member

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    thanks Tony. how is 7.1.6 Organizational Knowledge relevant to Supply Chain?
    Is it the knowledge gathered from external providers?
     
  9. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    That's impossible for us to answer. I know it's a seemingly simple question, but you have given us nothing to work with. Start with providing some context and background to why you are asking here.
     
  10. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Good day @Mustafa Kamal Pasha ;
    As @Andy Nichols stated, be careful not to overthink this stuff. I would council, instead of looking at the situation from the standard, look at it through your organization. i.e. reverse engineer. Look at what your organization is currently doing. Then compare it to two things...

    1- First and foremost, are the "things" that your organization is doing beneficial to the organization? Are those "things" meeting the intent of the organization
    (context of the organization)
    2- Once your organization is satisfied with "1", determine if the "things" that your organization is doing meet meet the requirements of the standard (i.e. gap
    analysis).

    While there are aspect of supplier selection and management (8.4) that can indeed be related to the specific clauses you are listing (and your organization may indeed have a vested interest in ensuring these activities are being addressed by your suppliers [are your suppliers ISO 9001 registered?] ), keep in mind that the only requirements that the STANDARD requires for supplier management, are those listed in clause 8.4...(a few specific exceptions,
    i.e=. 4; 8.5.3 ; 9.1.3-f; 9.3.2-7) . In addition, ISO 9001 leaves much of this up to your organization do decide...

    6.2 Quality Objectives and Planning to achieve them ?? "...organization shall establish....needed for (YOUR organization's) ...management system."
    7.1.6 Organizational Knowledge ?? "...organization shall determine..."
    8.1 Operational Planning and Control ?? "...organization shall ...needed to meet the requirements..."

    Are there gaps/problems currently caused by your supply chain? Determine what is need to close close those gaps, whether it is simply a corrective action specific to a nonconformity, or whether it is a systemic (QMS) problem for which your organization needs to help your suppliers develop.

    Summary: Look at the current actuality instead of approaching it from the standard.

    Hope this helps.
    Be well.
     
  11. Mustafa Kamal Pasha

    Mustafa Kamal Pasha Member

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    thanks a lot John and the rest. Will do it accordingly and tell you how it went :)
     
  12. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    You are most welcome and YES we would love to hear how it progresses for you.

    Be well.
     
  13. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    A bit late to the party, but...let's turn this around. Tell us why you believe some clauses are not relevant.

    The reason I suggest this approach is that while supply chain management not be be the process owners of Operational Planning and Control (as an example) and a direct link may not be obvious, I'd offer that they are pretty darn important to the success of Operational Planning and Control. Planning and Control needs to provide (i.e., input to) Supply Chain Management with schedules so that people know to ensure the right materials are available so that production may start (output of Supply Chain). If stuff isn't available, important stuff, this may delay production and now we have an output that requires plans to change. This could imply a supporting relationship between Supply Chain and the Operational Planning and Control process(es).

    Relevancy of a clause may be determined by how the process is an input to and/or an output from another process.
     
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  14. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    7.1.6 is applicable to all processes, particularly with those that affect conformity of products and services. Managing the supply chain using the necessary knowledge lead to its effective implementation. These knowledge are, usually, obtained from the experience of the organization in dealing with the suppliers. These can include, knowledge on:
    • who among the suppliers has the best/worst performance;
    • pricing of supplied goods;
    • negotiation and haggling to secure the best deal;
    • securing the most favorable payment terms;
    • alternative source;
    • supply and logistics risks and appropriate measures;
    • regulatory requirements (e.g. regulated materials/substances); etc.
    Not just from external providers.
     
  15. BradM

    BradM Moderator Staff Member

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    Hello there!

    How is the Supply Chain defined in your organization? For some it only involves the product leaving the dock to the warehouse. Others, it involves the movement of materials, people, finished product, etc.

    What areas of Operations/organizations are encompassed with Supply Chain, could affect the response significantly.
     
  16. Kelechi

    Kelechi New Member

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    I appreciate your approach. The reason however why it is advised that focus be on specific clauses is to enable the auditor not lose focus and expend energy and audit time on areas that requires same. Notwithstanding, depending on the how luxurious the affordable time is, both for the auditor/auditee, the ALL clauses may apply to all.
     
  17. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Welcome!

    I read your post with interest. We don't create a QMS for auditors. Firstly, because the QMS should focus on the CUSTOMER and, secondly, not all organizations are going to be audited (except by internal auditors).

    This, therefore, shouldn't be the aim of assigning requirements/clauses to processes - and hence not all clauses apply to all processes....
     
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