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Internal Audits

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Suraiya Ramkissoon, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. Suraiya Ramkissoon

    Suraiya Ramkissoon Active Member

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    Hi guys,

    wanted to bounce this off someone...

    I've started the ISO 9001:2015 certification journey with my current company on 1st October, 2018.

    We are optimistically pushing to do our Internal Audits from the 15th March to end of April, 2019 so that we can have our management review in May, 2019 and stage one in June, 2019.

    now i know that it is possible to do your stage 1 in as little as 3 months or as long as 2-3 years... its all dependent on how we structure it.

    however we are optimistically completing documenting all our procedures and records by 15th March. Is there really enough to audit? if we start our audit plan on 15th march, we are basically auditing documented information that has JUST been introduced. while yes its a chance to retook at the documented procedures and records.... how much value really will this add? IS it enough to do our Stage 1?

    Suraiya
     
  2. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    I would hope most of your newly introduced documentation is just a representation of what you have been doing for years. If so, you should have no problem.
     
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  3. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Only if you have sufficient process & product measurement results to show that you are meeting your objectives AND your audits confirm this. Doing internal audits isn't just checking off against ISO clauses or answering "are we doing what we say we're doing?"
     
  4. Suraiya Ramkissoon

    Suraiya Ramkissoon Active Member

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    I feel the same way, however i'm trying to meet the team's expectations with regards to timelines halfway.

    Maybe I'll do the audits of the processes that are already established from March 15th and I can do the newer ones after 3 months.

    this way i can still have the first management review in May, 2019. and we can complete the new process audits by June 2019 so we can have our Stage 1 in June?
     
  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    As long as they're completed by the stage 2 it shouldn't be an issue. The stage 1 is to confirm you a) have an audit program and b) it's implemented. Not that you have done them ALL...
     
  6. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    You can do internal audits by batches. You don't need to cover everything in one cycle. After the initial batch, you can also have a "partial" management review for those areas covered. You're right to audit first the established processes, then next batch are the new ones. Stage 2 is more important. You can still have your internal audits, management reviews, even revisions on your processes after Stage 1. It shouldn't be a touch-move rule where you can no longer change anything after the CB auditors seen your QMS at Stage 1.
     
  7. Suraiya Ramkissoon

    Suraiya Ramkissoon Active Member

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    Thank you so much for the guidance. I don't feel so uneasy now.
     
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  8. Graham Thorpe

    Graham Thorpe Member

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    OK, now feeling really dumb! What are these phases? Is Phase 1 what used to be called 'Desktop review' where the assessor worked out if the documented system addressed all aspects of the standard? And Phase 2 the actual assessment?
     
  9. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Since about 8 years ago, all accredited (IAF) Certification audits have to be done according to ISO/IEC 17021. That requires an on site (at least in part) "readiness review" before the implementation audit. The readiness review ISN'T a documentation review (only) it checks many other features to determine if the organization is ready and likely to be successful at the implementation (certification) audit.
     
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  10. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Part of the difficulty is that there's a lack of standardization in a World where the model is standardization! Some CBs use quite widely varying terminology for similar processes and activities. This is sometimes made worse by sector specific schemes such as Automotive and Aerospace/Defence audits to IATF 16949 and AS91XX certifications. Layer on top of that the sometimes flaky relationship between auditors and the CB they work for and it becomes a very murky story indeed - and the client soon becomes lost. And that's even before you get the wildly varying "interpretations" of so-called "requirements" (which are nothing more that bias, pure and simple). Instead of making ISO certification easier to access and understand, it's become a place of two and three letter abbreviations, codification and mumbo-jumbo. So much for "Customer Focus"...
     

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