Dismiss Notice
You must be a registered member in order to post messages and view/download attached files in this forum.
Click here to register.

HR Departmental objectives

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Prabod Mihiran, Feb 19, 2021.

  1. Prabod Mihiran

    Prabod Mihiran New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2021
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Hi, I’m new for ISO subject. can anyone send me some HR departmental objective examples please....
     
  2. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    353
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Location:
    Upper Midwest- USA
    Good day @Prabod Mihiran and welcome to the site.

    May I inquire as to...
    1- why you are looking to establish HR department objectives?
    2- Is your organization currently certified to ISO 9001?
    3- If the answer to "2" is "no", is your organization pursuing certification to ISO 9001?
    4- Does your organization currently track any metrics specific to HR activity and responsibility?
    5- Does your organization currently have any HR objectives established?

    Having this information will help us to help you.

    Thanks in advance.

    Be well.
     
  3. Prabod Mihiran

    Prabod Mihiran New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2021
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Thank you for welcome this site and your reply.
    Actually our company pursuing certification to ISO 9001.
    So, as a HR department I have to write hr objectives
     
  4. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    353
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Location:
    Upper Midwest- USA
    Thanks for the feedback @Prabod Mihiran

    Please consider this previous question...
    4- Does your organization currently track any metrics specific to HR activity and responsibility?
     
  5. Prabod Mihiran

    Prabod Mihiran New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2021
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
  6. Eric Twiname

    Eric Twiname Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    315
    Likes Received:
    218
    Trophy Points:
    42
    Location:
    Northeast USA
    Hello Prabod,

    If you think about it, your HR function already has objectives...they just aren't documented into conscious thought yet.
    Are you in HR?
    If yes...what objectives were you hired to accomplish? Those are the objectives.
    If no...talk with the HR manager...what objectives was he/she hired to accomplish? Those are the objectives.

    Don't do it just for ISO...the objectives are already there, else HR wouldn't have been hired. Identify the business function that the business needs in HR...then document THAT as your objective(s).
     
  7. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    353
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Location:
    Upper Midwest- USA
    Ok...understood.

    Now some additional questions.
    1- Why do you ..."as a HR department I have to write hr objectives" ? There is no requirement in ISO 9001 for this.
    2- Why do you ..."need to implement this...? ? There is no requirement in ISO 9001 for this


    Here is where I am headed. I will assume your organization has been in existence for some time and is functioning "well" ? If so, then I would council against adding objectives and activities beyond what your organization NEEDS.
    ISO 9001 requires...

    4.4.1
    The organization shall determine the processes needed for the quality management system


    6.2.1
    The organization shall establish quality objectives at relevant functions, levels and processes
    needed for the quality management system.


    As you can see, it is up to your organization to establish the processes needed and establish quality objectives at relevant functions. This leaves considerable room for the organization to make determinations.


    Remember, don't establish a qms for the sake of an auditor. Do only what is BENEFICIAL to the organization in a way that meets the requirements of the standard. Be selfish.

    I do indeed believe there are benefits to tracking typical "HR" metrics and having goals. Objectives such as turnover, injuries/near misses, morale, associate involvement, ...these are all common metrics which are frequently managed by the HR department. Regardless, don't do what does not benefit your organization in some way. Don't "do just to do".

    Hope this helps.

    Be well.
     
  8. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    3,937
    Likes Received:
    1,980
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    I concur with @John C. Abnet. The main purpose of ISO 9001 compliance of your Quality Management System is to assure that customer requirements for Product/Services are met. There are Core Processes which are the main process in achieving this overall goal. Yes, there are support processes too. Since there's no specified requirement for a particular department or function - like HR - ISO doesn't make any comment about them needing objectives. Now, depending upon your organizational responsibilities, IF the HR function is responsible for ensuring people are competent to do a job, that's what you should focus on. Otherwise, I can see no reason why you'd need objectives. Unless your management like measuring things for the sake of it.
     
    John C. Abnet likes this.
  9. Prabod Mihiran

    Prabod Mihiran New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2021
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Dear all, Thank you for the valuable replies....

    Actually we are pursuing ISO 9001: 2015 & 14001: 2015.

    so i wrote one objective, It is below

    1. Improve skill metrics activities by 25% with in 1 year (from 01.01.2021 to 31.12.2021)

    I need some examples like that, because I’m very new for this ISO.

    I like to study this ISO subject, because this subject very interesting.

    Thanx All for helping me....!
     
  10. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    3,937
    Likes Received:
    1,980
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Is this meaningful? I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve here. Is this a "S.M.A.R.T" objective? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMART_criteria) or something which no-body really cares about, were done because "ISO-Says-So", aren't related to any important business performance and, ultimately, no-one cares to know if they were met or not?
     
  11. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    889
    Likes Received:
    629
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    USA
    Welcome to QFO Prabod! Lots of good comments so far.

    It is true that ISO states "The organization shall establish quality objectives at relevant functions, levels and processes needed for the quality management system." (Anyone in the organization who is not relevant, please raise your hand) but there is an expectation that the objectives will support your organization's quality policy, and your mission/vision if you have them identified too.

    I could list all sorts of example objectives, but how would I do so without any knowledge of your organization? Objectives should be set for the benefit of the business, not to achieve certification.

    To begin, what are your HR strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats? What are your stakeholders' concerns? Are there regulatory requirements not currently being met? How well does the process currently support the business's health - are there excessive labor costs for things like employee turnover? Do your personnel have insufficient skills to perform their tasks - is that why you identified the objective "Improve skill metrics activities by 25% with in 1 year"? If it is, be ready to plot out just what will be done to achieve that and how you will know the results of the actions taken to achieve this objective; I do not understand what a skill metrics activity is. Be ready to make personnel aware of the objectives they are being asked to help achieve, as that is required as well.

    I recommend Craig Cochran's book ISO 9001:2015 in Plain English. There are many consistencies between the two standards, so core processes such as HR could easily be integrated. The ISO 14001 Technical Committee has published a set of guidance documents that can help you with the requirements that are unique to environmental management systems.

    I hope this helps!
     
  12. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    3,937
    Likes Received:
    1,980
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    I beg to differ! "HR" isn't a process, it's a department or function. There's no process here. In some places, they may be somewhat responsible for facilitating training - on-boarding etc. It's also not a "core process" as far as ISO 9001 or 14001 go, either. It's there to support the core processes by hiring/firing people and making sure they turn up for work, get treatment if they get sick or whatever the benefits are, and pay them what was agreed etc.
     
  13. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    889
    Likes Received:
    629
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    USA
    I can go along with that, the HR Manager is better considered a business partner.

    Now, are all those activities you listed processes or not? Is it all about provision of needed resources (skilled, ready personnel) to perform their work in support of customer satisfaction? Does a hiring process include identifying and verifying existing skills in applicants? Or, if not a process is it a function? Does HR do that?

    I don't want to muddle this for our readers, so I will refer to Management Study Guide.
     
  14. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    3,937
    Likes Received:
    1,980
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    There's perhaps a weakness with the standard. It says, under "Support", "Resources", "People", that the org shall determine and provide the persons necessary, under "Competence", determine necessary competence and ensure these people are competent and then, where applicable, take action. Further, that they are "Aware". I don't see anywhere that an HR function has to be involved...
     
  15. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    353
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Location:
    Upper Midwest- USA
    This entire conversation raises a much bigger issue (@Andy Nichols , I believe you have brought this up...blogged about it specifically), in regards to the term PROCESS.

    We can all easily interpret the definition of "PROCESS", but in context of the standard and "...establish(ing) quality objectives at relevant ... processes", it is all very unclear.

    I have seen organizations identify 20+ "processes", and then (struggling to do so), fabricate objectives for each of those identified processes. Objectives that no sensible organization would attempt to identify and adhere to if not for the simple fact of trying to understand and "comply" with an international standard.

    Likewise, there is no such thing (within the actual standard) as "core" processes or "key" processes or "critical" processes. These are simply terms the industry/organizations have created in order to "justify" (not necessarily) to avoid the perceived mandate of having objectives for every processes. In reality , creating and defining the term "core processes" may be a good option for the TC176 team to improve this in the next iteration of ISO 9001.


    Be well.
     
    Andy Nichols likes this.
  16. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    889
    Likes Received:
    629
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    USA
    Organizations are structured as their management sees fit. Depending on the organization, HR may or may not be the group overall responsible for determining and providing the persons necessary, facilitating the training processes (including assisting with procuring contracted training where needed), facilitating the determination of necessary competence and ensure these people are competent and then, where applicable, taking action. The question of whether HR should or should not do this is not relevant here.

    It could well be that these are not considered processes but rather functions, which is arguable since the listed things would very probably involve inputs, resources, infrastructure (including software and/or networks to store the required retained documented information of evidence of competence) and transformational actions to turn inputs into outcomes. But why quibble when the standard says objectives are to be established at relevant functions, levels and processes? The question should be more about relevancy than whether it's a process or a function, and if HR does it or if someone else does.

    For the sake of discussion, can we agree that relevancy is based on how it supports the management system and policy? Since Mr. Mihiran is also asking about ISO 14001 and it requires an environmental policy to include a commitment to fulfil its compliance obligations, if those compliance obligations include some type of training for persons performing specific duties such as managing hazardous waste, the training function indeed becomes relevant to the EMS and needs some type of objective. But John C. Abnet is 100% right that not just any objective will do. The objective should support the effective operation of the management system.

    Since not everyone is present all the time and not everyone present is performing every duty all the time, it makes sense for an objective to be worded in a way that makes it practical. According to the ISO 14001 Technical Committee's ISO/TC/ 207/SC1 reviewed interpretations (see pages 22-24), an EMS objective does not need to be related to an environmental aspect but points out that the objectives “shall be consistent” with the organization’s environmental policy. So an objective for required training could say "100 per cent of persons performing their duties will be currently qualified to perform those duties" and make sure that a person whose training has expired while away or working elsewhere will be able to complete needed training before resuming the related duties.

    I used to believe that the training process did not need an EMS objective - that objectives were for production processes. That ended on the day I found my client had several people with hazardous waste handling duties over a year overdue for their required hazardous waste handling training. The HR Manager had notified the employees' manager multiple times but the training still was not completed at time of audit. Since Management Review is required to include the extent to which environmental objectives have been achieved, had there been an objective for the current status of this required training then top management could have been informed and lent their influence to get that training completed.

    Could the HR Manager have done it without an objective? One would hope, but the standards are structured the way they are to help ensure all these pieces fit together to support the whole. And so they include the requirement for objectives at relevant functions, levels and in the case of 9001, processes.
     
  17. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    3,937
    Likes Received:
    1,980
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    I'd definitely disagree with this assertion. IMHO all the has been done under annex SL is to force a bunch of requirements into P.D.C.A. Nothing more.
     
  18. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    889
    Likes Received:
    629
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    USA
    Ah well, so much for good intentions. It is what it is, until they change it and we will adapt again.
     
  19. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1,207
    Likes Received:
    890
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    Laguna Philippines
    What do the interested parties need or expect from the HR function/process? Do they need and expect:
    1) that the requested additional manpower are hired on time?
    2) that the hired personnel conform with the set qualification criteria?
    3) that salaries are released on time?
    4) that salaries, including deductions, are accurately computed?
    5) newly hired personnel are inducted properly?
    etc.​

    You can base the setting of objectives on the needs and expectations of the interested parties. Needs and expectations form the definition of requirement. Clause 6.2.1c requires that "The quality objectives shall...take into account applicable requirements". So understanding the needs and expectations of the interested parties as referred to in Clause 4.2 of the standard will help your organization to determine the appropriate quality objectives for a particular function or process.
     

Share This Page