Dismiss Notice
You must be a registered member in order to post messages and view/download attached files in this forum.
Click here to register.

High Level Process map

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Vicki Davis, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. Vicki Davis

    Vicki Davis New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2019
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Im in a new position as QA for a manufacturing company and im currently writing a quality manual as a foundation to get ISO 9001:2015 accreditation. im struggling with putting together a high level process map to show how all department processes interact... would anyone be able to give an example pls? It would be really appreciated. Thanks in advance
     
  2. Miner

    Miner Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    42
    Location:
    Greater Milwaukee USA
    Are you wanting one high level map that shows all of your QMS processes on one map, or multiple maps, one high level map for each QMS process?
     
  3. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    3,000
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Hi Vicki!

    Welcome to our world! FWIW, the most appropriate term is "certification" because accreditation applies ONLY to test and calibration labs (and usually in respect of ISO/IEC 17025)
     

    Attached File(s): 1. Scan for viruses before using. 2. Report any 'bad' files by reporting this post. 3. Use at your own Risk.:

    John C. Abnet and Vicki Davis like this.
  4. pkfraser

    pkfraser Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    7
    Location:
    Aberdeen Scotland
    Andy

    I am always intrigued to see unconnected boxes on a diagram purporting to show a "sequence and interaction"! Not that I have ever seen the point of saying "we get an order for something, then we make it, then we ship it, then we bill for it".

    I would like to know what exactly is the bare minimum that would be acceptable to an assessor...
     
  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    3,000
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Who knows, Peter! I've learned that assessors are "all over the map" (and I don't mean geographically!)

    Seriously, I've seen the PDCA diagram from ISO 9001 served up as well as a huge spiderweb of inter connections.

    My take is that as long as the basics of RFQ/Ordering - thru - Shipping (or core processes) are accurate, the others support (don't need interconnections) since they affect all the others (Core and Support) and if you try to connect them, you simply get a mess.
     
    Vicki Davis likes this.
  6. pkfraser

    pkfraser Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    7
    Location:
    Aberdeen Scotland
    Andy

    Agreed! You would need an n-dimensional matrix to show all the connections.

    But what I don't get is why you have to show "RFQ/Ordering - thru - Shipping" when everyone knows that is how an organisation does its business. Why is it a requirement - what does it prove? Sorry, I just don't get it!
     
  7. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    3,000
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    But they don't, Peter! And, what's more, people in the "trenches" often don't know that stuff! In fact, I've encountered top management who can't draw this sequence and interaction!

    I've worked in companies which do design work, before they ever get an order and then there's no quoting. The product goes into a catalog and the customer orders from there...
     
  8. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1,001
    Likes Received:
    749
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    Laguna Philippines
    Welcome to QFO Vicki! Please see attached files for your reference.
     

    Attached File(s): 1. Scan for viruses before using. 2. Report any 'bad' files by reporting this post. 3. Use at your own Risk.:

    Vicki Davis likes this.
  9. Vicki Davis

    Vicki Davis New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2019
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Thank you everyone - I was defiantly trying to over complicate!! As we design and manufacture products I will just diagram the flow of core events and then highlight other department interactions that feed into them. This forum is really great - a fountain of knowledge!! Thanks again
     
    Andy Nichols and tony s like this.
  10. pkfraser

    pkfraser Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    7
    Location:
    Aberdeen Scotland
    Andy

    Maybe you should choose your clients better! On second thoughts, maybe that would reduce your opportunities to help them...
     
    Travis Dutiel and Andy Nichols like this.
  11. Michael Hu

    Michael Hu New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Hi, Vicki, I'm strugguling with three-to-one ISO certification for our QMS, that's really important for our factory quality management not only showing on the paper system, but also for better emergency improvement of QMS. hope you already get what you want and keep touch each other!
     
  12. Dave01

    Dave01 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2019
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Vicki, I noticed you indicated that you are "writing a quality manual"...just wanted to highlight that a quality manual is no longer a requirement in ISO 9001:2015. I'm just flagging this FYI.

    In terms of the overall process map, I have not bothered with this. Instead I do process maps at a process level, where it is beneficial, and within those I indicate any interactions with other processes by using the off-page connector in the flowcharts. I also have a reference section in all procedures (flowcharts or simple text-based procedures) where I reference these procedures and that's what I tell auditors on how I address identifying the interfaces/relationships with other processes. I have always found the high-level maps to be pointless (just my opinion) and though I've had one auditor mumble about the fact I didn't do a high-level map (nor a quality manual) my response is always that I don't believe in make-work projects to do things just for one particular auditor; these things need to have business value...although I haven't always won the argument ;)

    Again just FYI in case it helps. Good luck.
     
    pkfraser likes this.
  13. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    3,000
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Welcome, Dave01

    Yes, that's true, however, taking one requirement in isolation of the others, is a risky way to view ISO 9001. Let's not overlook the need to identify the needs and expectations of interested parties. In my experience, a well designed quality manual would address the needs of employees and also the expectations of customers. Did you consider that?
     
  14. Dave01

    Dave01 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2019
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Yep. I use what I call dashboards which are individual tabs in a Google Sheets file which the management team can access. I have dashboards for things such as:
    • Stakeholders (i.e. interested parties and their requirements)
    • Process performance (listing core processes and how we measure their effectiveness)
    • Objectives (annual "quality" objectives and results)
    • Communication
    • Strategic business review (describes what we do and yearly results)
    And a couple of others...

    All auditors to date have liked this.

    That said though now that we've been doing this for 3 years (we just recently passed our first re-certification audit) I did notice that auditors are used to referring to a quality manual and the recent auditor (who was new to us) especially seem to struggle without this, but that's his issue not mine :)

    And actually our stakeholders dashboard really helped us in the last audit, but more on this later. I just joined this forum today actually to post a thread about ways to frame the scope of our certification to exclude functions that are located in a different geographic region. I'll look forward to your feedback.
     
  15. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    3,000
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    I didn't state my question correctly: Do any of your interested parties need or expect your organization to have a quality manual? Like new starts? Or customers wanting to see it?
     
  16. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    785
    Likes Received:
    892
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    I don't think I've ever had an external party ask for my Business Management Systems (BMS) manual. In retrospect, the most valuable part of it was in one of the Appendices where I had a matrix show all the applicable standards and how they aligned with each other and our PDCA BMS layout.

    For new hires, all they really needed was the "mission statement" which was an executive summary of our Quality Policy. Their training was more on the detailed components of their job (i.e., work instructions) and we'd circle back at some point during their probationary period to see if they had embraced how they, as individuals and as part of a team, impacted all components of our BMS.
     
  17. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    3,000
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Interesting. A Lockheed Martin supplier I once visited was desperate to get his hands on a template (follows the standard word for word) type of Quality Manual, because his SQA was demanding it!
     
  18. Dave01

    Dave01 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2019
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    2
    We don't have customers asking for a quality manual. When we apply to enter a new geographic market they sometimes ask for a quality manual but I provide them with a high-level product quality plan instead and that has addressed their requirements.
     
  19. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    3,000
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Employees like a road map to the quality system? A "quick start guide"? How would a new person know about these various Google Sheets files etc and how they are linked etc?
     
  20. Dave01

    Dave01 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2019
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Two things in place for employees on knowing what applies to them:
    1) QMS Orientation for all new employees during which I outline QMS elements they need to know including the item below...
    2) QMS Procedure Matrix which is a T-matrix aligning the employees with:
    > the applicable roles called out in the procedures;
    > the QMS procedures applicable to them.

    We are also evolving role-specific training plans which have a section for "applicable documents" which lists any QMS procedures and work instructions applicable to those roles which form part of the training delivery.
     

Share This Page