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Fighting a losing battle

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by QAquack, Dec 6, 2019.

  1. QAquack

    QAquack New Member

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    I need some advice. I recently started working for a small (25 people) manufacturing company as the the Quality Coordinator. The owner wants to begin working on ISO 9001:2015 certification. This is something he has been trying to do for the last couple of years and has it just really never progressed.
    Here is were I need advise.
    To my knowledge, none of the customers require traceability.
    So my concern is probably more with identification.
    Material comes in. I go find it and put a green move card with the part number, quantity and heat treat number. Then I fill out the next operation go tell that person. They do their part... date and initial and tell the next person and so on. They have routing instructions somewhere in a file.
    Routings routinely get changed.... quanaties are never right...the cards are scribbled on with writing you can bearly read. Stuff is scratched out. Then the cards are thrown away once the product ships. It just seem like an odd system. If I mention any kind of change.... the old timers jump all over me and tell me that's how they have done it for the last 30 years and never had a problem with it.
    I have been a certified ISO 17025 auditor. I have work with NADCAP and AS9100... so maybe I'm being a little to strict with my thoughts on this. Maybe the green cards are ok (even though there is obviously an issue) and I should stop pushing for change. Your thoughts?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2019
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Why do you wish to change it?
     
  3. QAquack

    QAquack New Member

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    The information on the card is not always easy to read. They get oily and the ink gets blurred. They scribble out quantities. Sometimes routing steps are missed. They take the cards out leaving parts unidentified. They get moved and nobody knows where they are. Sometimes the only way to identify a lot is by going back to inspection reports, comparing dates and hope that's the right parts.
    But that's what I'm wondering, maybe I'm used to stricter requirements.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
  4. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Good day @QAquack and welcome.

    8.5.2
    "...shall use suitable...when it is necessary to ensure conformity.

    "...SHALL identify the status with respect to ...requirements..."

    "...unique identification....when traceability is a requirement..."

    So, a couple of questions...
    1- What is the purpose/goal of the current "green card" method?
    2- Is the current purpose/goal being fulfilled? ( if not, why is it being done?)
    3- Is status (with respect to monitoring...requirements), identified? If no, then it must be.
    4- Do your customers and/or regulatory and/or statutory requirements exist regarding identification and traceability? If so, they must be met.


    As you can see, much of the "requirements" are left up to you/the organization. Everything should be done for a purpose that serves the organization (selfishly- first and foremost), and then that activity must be done in a way that satisfies the ISO 9001 standard.

    Summary:
    Don't overthink it. As @Andy Nichols said, "why do you wish to change it"? Is it because it serves no purpose/benefit? Is it because a requirement of the customer (and/or standard) are not being met?

    Food for thought.

    Hope this helps.
    Be well.
     
  5. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    Forget about ISO. It's irrelevant. What is the business purpose of the green card. Figure that out and go from there.

    Do they have a computerized mfg system? We use the routings/travelers/work orders from there. Everything is tied together with a lot number. The traveler works its way thru the shop and is eventually closed and filed for a few years.
     
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  6. Ellie

    Ellie Member

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    Who are your customers and what do they require?
     
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  7. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    If they're doing it for 30 years and never had any problem. It would be difficult for you to initiate change.
     
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  8. Katrijn

    Katrijn Member

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    They have been doing it this way for 30 years. Fine.
    But have they been doing it right? Are there any problems / complaints ? Is there an issue with efficiency or stock control? Other problems? Start with identifying the problems.

    Get some of these oldtimers in a meeting room and talk about these problems that you (= your company... it's not about what you as quality manager would like to see, it's about what your company wants to achieve) want to fix. Explain the problems and their consequences. Together you should look for causes. And then let them help to find solutions or systems to eliminate these problems. Give them ownership over these issues.

    (document this meeting, write down actions, goals, deadlines, ... decide on ways to check if the system work or not)

    Implement the measures you agreed on, let the oldtimers take part in instructing the whole team.
    after an agreed time: evaluate and adapt the system if needs be.
    (and document this evaluation and changes)

    Et voilá ... ISO 9001
     
  9. john brainard

    john brainard New Member

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    While I agree with the premise of your statement (It would be difficult for you to initiate change.) That doesn't mean that change isn't sometimes necessary. :)

    There are several thing that I always consider when trying to implement change:

    1.) Does the potential change make the process more complex or does it simplify the process?
    2.) Is the process that is currently in place working effectively?
    3.) Does it just need a little tweaking?

    RFI's (Room For Improvement) are a type of nonconformance that doesn't necessarily upset the Management Team (as much) and in my opinion are the best way to approach some issues and implement some changes. Old School Management doesn't view a nonconformance as an opportunity for improvement (which is unfortunate) but instead takes it personally. We have all had to deal with that if we have functioned in a leadership role in Quality Systems. :eek:
     

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