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Feasibility study and drawings

Discussion in 'IATF 16949:2016 - Automotive Quality Systems' started by Jurij, May 6, 2020.

  1. Jurij

    Jurij Member

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    Hi,

    we have situation in our company. We are pretty new in IATF QMS so I hope that someon will answer my question.

    We make drawing and send it to our supplier. They are also IATF certified and they established communication protocol (similar to feasibility study) where they propose different solutions for dimensions which they are not capable to achieve.
    My question is: do we have to change drawing according to theirs proposal or is it enough just to enclose communication protocol/ feasibility study to the drawing in our ERP.

    Thank you in advance.
     
  2. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Hi Jurij:

    Firstly, are these drawings of your design? Your organization is the design authority? If so, then you have 2 options: 1) change the dimensions to suit the suppliers' capabilities or 2) find another supplier.

    If you aren't the design authority then you have to take a different path to negotiate a change.
     
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  3. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    Good day @Jurij ;
    @Andy Nichols has provided you the correct answers.

    I would also add, IF your organization is design responsible and you are accepting the supplier's VA/VE proposal, why would your organization NOT update the drawing?

    What would the drawback(s) be of changing the drawings?

    Food for thought.
    Be well.
     
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  4. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Let's look at this the way it SHOULD be being done! That way, you don't have to mess with these options:

    Find a supplier who gives you acceptable quality performance and bring them into your feasibility process discussions, such that the dimensions being put on the drawing are what can be (economically) produced. That was, lead times are reduced and costs of drawing changes are minimal. WIN!
     
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  5. Jurij

    Jurij Member

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    Hello both.
    First of all thank you for your answers.

    We are design responsible and we are very satisfied with our supplier but problem occurs when we receive suppliers "feasibility study". My opinion is that we have to change drawing according to suppliers feedback, but some members do not agree with it.

    We produce encodes and this case is going to printed circuit board design where sometimes there is big difference in what we desire and what supplier actually can achieve in process. Maybe IATF is not best quality system for us but we chose it and we shall respect it.
     
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  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm VERY familiar with this situation and with circuit boards in particular. It took me 5 years to change the process, but - eventually - when we started a new design we called in the pcb people to help us do "DFM": Design For Manufacturability

    If you don't do this (I hope you can benefit from doing it quicker) you will pay a lot of money chasing problems such as you describe. It's nothing to do with IATF or the suppliers feasibility review. It's YOUR organization's lack of understanding supplier relationships (purchasing)
     
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  7. Jurij

    Jurij Member

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    We use DFM but I see we will need some time to put things in order :)
    Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
     
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  8. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I used to figure it cost about $1000 (US) to process a change to a drawing (rarely do organizations put a cost to that) and that should be added to the purchase price. When the Purchasing function see it that way (their objective is to get the parts at the lowest price, yet they can't control the internal cost) if they understand THEY are accountable for the total cost of supplied pcbs, they should work diligently to bring in the supplier earlier. Then, you have to work on Engineering and that can be sold on the fact that a) no-one wants to go back on released designs and do changes and b) its a cost they have to bear, based on the Purchasing process not working properly - they should see the light!
     
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  9. Jurij

    Jurij Member

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    I think the problem is more on developments site. For example PCB team which is responsible for design of PCBs thinks that ,in case described in my first post, they don't need to change drawing. They believe it is not necessary and is enough just comm-protocol in ERP. And there problem occurs, especially at incoming control where they use drawings to control dimensions. There is always "non conformal" material and then we have to search what they communicated with supplier.
     
  10. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    In which case, charge the pcb team's development budget the cost of this (probably $1000 per instance) and then see who likes what. They'll soon run out of money to develop new products and find themselves out of a job. Simples!
     
  11. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    I think the biggest problem is today's designers don't really have an idea of the manufacturing processes they are designing for. At least some rudimentary training would go a long way.
     
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  12. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    "Today's"? It's been that way for years...
     

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