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Customer focus & Needs and Expectations of Interested Parties

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by Andy Nichols, May 9, 2019.

  1. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I have been dealing with an ISO 9001 Certified company because I bought one of their products. It prompted me to think about what these 2 requirements of ISO 9001 actually look like (at least, to a customer).

    Firstly, the packaging hardly made it through the first third of the total journey and required repacking. The product arrived and an inner box had a huge hole in it which made me wonder what might have escaped.

    A packing slip was included and listed 4 items (which were ambiguously checked off) and I received 2 items, one of which wasn't ON the packing slip! Should I have received the others?

    The website photograph showed a picture of the product with more items than I received. Did they get lost in the damaged packaging incident?

    The carrier "lost" the package and were unable to track it. I finally - after many calls - managed to track it to the main carrier's facility - a 30 miles drive away,

    I asked the supplier "Where's the instructions?" "Is there a fitting kit"? The packing slip doesn't tell me anything and is, apparently, inaccurate.

    I was told "ship it back to us if you have a problem", which would have cost $200 and despite me telling them the product is fine, I just don't know what I got is a) complete and b) how to assemble it.

    Finally, a marketing department representative had the sense to listen to me request and sent some photographs and basic instructions,

    My question is: Despite having an ISO 9001 Certificate (from a renowned British Certification Body), does this supplier a) have a clue about customer focus and b) understand the needs and expectations of interested parties?
     
  2. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    I oft tell clients (as a lesson in keeping all this in perspective) "there are ISO 9001 registered companies, whom I wouldn't allow to sharpen pencils".

    Creation is meaningless without proper and sustainable implementation.

    Thanks for sharing this "real world" experience.

    Be well.
     
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  3. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    Your RL situation reminds me of why I like to distinguish between Customer SATISFACTION and Customer EXPERIENCE. In this case, technically, you are "satisfied" (somewhat) by getting the photographs and instructions, however, your experience has been less than ideal. And that experience alone may be reason enough for you to think about offering them repeat business.

    That said, maybe their were following their process. Their process is to have the part shipped back. Not necessarily the best process but if that's what they have and they followed it...well...hello, certification. They're also not expected to be perfect - unless that's their documented target - so, lucky you, you could be one of those allowable dissatisfied customers. :rolleyes:

    I remember when I first started in the world of ISO 9001 and in the job interview they asked me to summarize it in under 10 seconds. I replied, "As long as you're making consistent crap, you can still be certified." At that time, customer requirements weren't really a part of the requirement - am I showing my age? Job offer was made on the spot and I managed to ready both of their Canadian locations for successful certification. :D
     
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  4. John C. Abnet

    John C. Abnet Well-Known Member

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    This forum needs to add a "'super like" option . Double thumbs up.
     
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  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    True, and it's right up there with concrete life preservers! In today's ISO 9001 world, I'm not so certain it should be true, however...
     
  6. MRH_2019

    MRH_2019 Member

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    Our Saying is "do what you say, and say what you do". As long as we follow those guidelines, we stay certified (even with our QMS failures) :)
     
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  7. KyleG

    KyleG Active Member

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    I said something similar to this, and a member of my management said perfect set the bar low and we're fine ( on time delivery at 50% as on objective), i audibly laughed and said that's not how were going to do it. The rest of the management quickly agreed with me.
    One of ISO's biggest cons IMO is that you can make an awful system that doesn't work, but if you're following your crappy system and owning it you get to keep your cert.
     
  8. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    MRH - if your goal is simply to maintain a certificate, then it's going to become a monster you'll have to feed. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, bit ISO 9001 has NEVER been about that myth "Say what you do, do what you say". That was a simply an adage coined by an early certification achiever (in the USA) because they believed that's all you had to do. Of course, in those days all auditors did was check compliance, which is when the second myth of making "concrete life preservers" became common. Both are a) totally ridiculous and b) highly inaccurate.

    Yes, some auditors think that way, but as I posted in my thread about Customer focus, the people who pay you will notice - by which time it's too late for you to fix!
     
  9. MRH_2019

    MRH_2019 Member

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    That seems to be the biggest flaw with the current ISO Standards. As long as you can justify that you are meeting customer satisfaction (or at least show you are) you will get certified.
     
  10. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Far from an ISO "con" Kyle, it's what hapless Certification Body auditors and "fly-by-night" consultants have peddled for years - as MRH stated earlier (the consultants didn't even know the industry)
     
  11. MRH_2019

    MRH_2019 Member

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    Hi Andy, I completely agree. Unfortunately, that is how my company wants to currently address ISO. It is very difficult to maintain a system like this but we still can keep our ISO cert.
     
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  12. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    Not really MRH. The flaw is, perhaps, in the choice of auditor/Certifier chosen.
     
  13. MRH_2019

    MRH_2019 Member

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    This is why it is important to contribute to the QMS and update it to what your current process is rather than relying on 3rd parties.
     
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  14. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd be dusting off my resume...
     
  15. MRH_2019

    MRH_2019 Member

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    :cool: already working on it.
     
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