At Andy's suggestion, a new thread has been created by copying some of the off-topic posts from another thread. And many organizations mirror the CB approach via their internal audit program. We've seen examples of that here and in our former home. Organizations may not be able to change how 3rd party audits go, but they can change their own behavior. I am a fairly vocal advocate that there is more value to be gained from an internal audit than an external one. We're looking at ourselves in the mirror. We have the opportunity to be our strongest critic...and strongest champion. With New Year's quickly approaching, resolutions will soon be made by many. One of the more popular ones is "To lose weight." Having a bunch of people tell us how is all well and good, but it is up to us, as individuals, to do the work and change our lifestyle. Family and friends are a great support and they can recognize our efforts, but the actual efforts and results will only happen if we take action ourselves. It's the same thing with an organization attempting to develop a value-added QMS. Make it work for you...not the CB.