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Corrective Action Completion Date

Discussion in 'IATF 16949:2016 - Automotive Quality Systems' started by mlouc, Oct 19, 2015.

  1. mlouc

    mlouc Member

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    Hello! I am new to this forum. I am saddened by the loss of Elsmar Cove and am searching for a replacement. I'm hoping this is it.

    Question: can anyone tell me if there exists a definitive completion date for corrective actions? I know that my particular certification body requires that corrective actions must be completed/closed within 60 days (from cradle to grave), but I have a fellow auditor who disagrees. She states that because the technical specification does not contain a specific number of days to closure, that an organization can determine a completion date based on their business need. I'd appreciate any light that can be shed on this topic.
     
  2. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    Hello, mlouc.

    Since CBs indicate to the external world if your organization's processes conform to a standard, it make sense that they would have a completion date on them. What I do not know is if there is a standard time frame.

    Internally, I don't believe that there is a mandated time requirement, however, it doesn't look too good if an item is open for a very long. Internal processes should have a means for identifying outstanding CAs and an escalation process.
     
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  3. PaulJSmith

    PaulJSmith Well-Known Member

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    Welcome, mlouc!

    I believe your fellow auditor is correct to question that. In support of that, you might ask how that 60 days can apply to corrective action on a product or process you only run once every 6 months, or 2 years, or ... you get the picture. You cannot possibly verify the effectiveness of any corrective action until you run it again, which may be well past that 60 day limit. Prematurely closing a CA before verification would be a very bad practice.

    I don't think you can apply a single time limit to every case. Each situation will dictate the time required to properly resolve.
     
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  4. Sidney Vianna

    Sidney Vianna Well-Known Member

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    Since you are posting this under the TS16949 Forum, ask your CB to share with you the source for the requirement in the IATF Rules for TS 16949 certification.
     
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  5. Bev D

    Bev D Moderator Staff Member

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    I can understand that your certification auditor might require a response or a definite plan within a specified timeframe - especially if the finding was a 'major'. I can understand the need for aerospace and defense audits - and in certain cases automotive or other industries to require at least a mitigation to be implemented in a very short time frame when the NC could - or does - effect safety. But in general the risk, physics and complexity should guide the timeline.
     
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  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    All corrective actions should be appropriate to the amount of work to be done, affect on customer etc - that takes time. However, in the external auditor's world it is common practice to require things to be done within a time frame.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2015
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  7. MCW8888

    MCW8888 Well-Known Member

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    Section 5.9. CB auditors do not require us to close the NC's after submitting corrective actions. But there must be objective evidence of: Containment, Corrective Action and Preventive Action. Evidence of effectiveness will be upon the next visit (if major) on 60-90 days.....
     
  8. Jennifer Kirley

    Jennifer Kirley Moderator Staff Member

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    Welcome mlouc!

    I had a TS auditor who pressured me for closure within 60 days. I stressed that we had a few corrective actions that needed more time. He wondered what was taking so long, so I showed him the string of actions listed in my log and described the containment in place and how time resources were needed for XYZ personnel in order to engineer a fix in the software that allowed the issue. He gave up and moved on.
     
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  9. RoxaneB

    RoxaneB Moderator Staff Member

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    I think what is important is to show that you have a process in place that, for the most part, results in timely - and proper - closure to corrective actions. As with any process, however, there will be outliers. Having an escalation and/or review process established to ensure these outliers are not forgotten could be helpful, without taking away from the importance of timely resolution.

    Using "## Days to Close" as a key performance/process indictor for Corrective Action has never been my favourite, however, it is a nice control indicator. As part of a data analysis exercise, if 80% (just picking a number here, folks) are within 60 days, an organization now knows that there are 20% that they should probably focus more deeply on. Why are they open so long? Are there any trends?...same product, same process, same time, and so on. That's not to say the other 80% of the corrective actions should be ignored, but if there are trends to long-open CAs, you have a potential significant improvement project in the making. :)

    As well, if there was only 1 CA over that threshold of 60 days and the rest were closed within 60 days, why look at what time window 80% of the CAs fall into. Your internal window may need to reduce to 45 days if you're going to have 20% of your CAs escalated up for that deeper analysis mentioned above. A tighter window is yet another way to demonstrate improvement as it could be an indicator of a robust and effective CA process.
     
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  10. MCW8888

    MCW8888 Well-Known Member

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    My TS auditor accepted my CAR response even if I could not close it in 60 days. the auditor just wanted to see that there is an action plan and the date of implementation. Some might be >60 days. It should be fine as long as the client is sincere in his commitment to close. If it is a Major NC, the auditor will have to come back and re-audit within 90 days to ensure that the action plan is progressing as it should.
     
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  11. mlouc

    mlouc Member

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    THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO EVERYONE! My apologies that it took me soo long to post this thank you. Your responses were all very helpful :)
     
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  12. Nikki

    Nikki Well-Known Member

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    As everyone pointed out - as long as you can prove you have been working on the issue and not ignoring it you shouldn't have a problem.

    Our system is set up to follow-up on each issue every 30 days until closed. So every 30 days, for the 2 or 3 I still have open, I write down what we are waiting for... Auditors love it :)
     

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