1. Hello and Welcome to The Quality Forum Online...Continuing in the spirit of People Helping People !
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You must be a registered member in order to post messages and view/download attached files in this forum.
Click here to register.

authoring vs transcribing/converting documents

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2008 - Quality Management Systems' started by ChrisB, Nov 25, 2016.

  1. ChrisB

    ChrisB New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2016
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I’m currently debating with a co-worker over the definition of authoring a document, say an SOP, vs transcribing and being able to audit that document later during an internal audit.

    So lets say as a QA rep you are handed a new procedure written out on paper and asked to make it into an electronic version. My co-worker states that by doing so, it makes you the author of that document and therefore you cannot audit it later. He states that is stated in the ISO standards but I’ve never come across it or seen it followed like that at the other sites I’ve worked at within the company.

    My view is that you are transcribing and converting the document into another format. You are not altering the content or intent of the procedure. Therefore you are then free to audit that procedure during an internal audit.



    Any thoughts on how to interpret this type of situation?
     
  2. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Messages:
    652
    Likes Received:
    423
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Location:
    Laguna Philippines
    Typically, the process owner authors his/her SOP. Whoever prepares the SOP for him/her, the process owner is still the SOP's author. In auditing, process owners are conventionally prohibited to audit their own SOP. This is due to the requirement of ISO 9001:2008 clause 8.2.2 that says "Auditors shall not audit their own work".
     
  3. ChrisB

    ChrisB New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2016
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    That's what I thinking as well. His expectation is that others will type up the SOP, form, manual, etc and all the QA responsibility will be is to upload it to the network and perform audits. Most of my coworkers don't have the experience writing up these documents or the skill set to properly format them and have them ready to be published. They need assistance or someone to polish the work for them. I don't see a conflict of interest in assisting them with the documents and typing them up that prevents me from then conducting an audit on the process and related documentation. I haven't written or changed the documentation, only transcribed from their rough written format to electronic format. In a perfect world, it would be done his way since everyone would have the required skills to complete the tasks. Unfortunately, it's a small work site where we have secondary duties assigned to us outside of our regular job functions.
     
  4. PaulJSmith

    PaulJSmith Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    112
    Trophy Points:
    42
    Location:
    Midwestern USA (STL area)
    I'm curious as to why this is even an issue. You will not be auditing the authors of procedures. You will be auditing the procedures themselves ... as in, are they working. It's not so much about who wrote it as it is about who is doing the work it describes.
     
    Andy Nichols likes this.
  5. ChrisB

    ChrisB New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2016
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    It's not auditing the author but what my co-worker is saying is that by transcribing the document, you now become the author and therefore you cannot audit your own work. I'm disagreeing with that viewpoint in that if you are not changing the content or intent of the document you're transcribing, then you are not the author. You can then audit the document as part of your audit.
     
  6. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    2,062
    Likes Received:
    1,073
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    Someone is over thinking this. If I understand the (your) definition of transcribing to be:

    tran·scribe
    tran(t)ˈskrīb/
    verb
    gerund or present participle: transcribing
    1. put (thoughts, speech, or data) into written or printed form.
      "each interview was taped and transcribed"
      • transliterate (foreign characters) or write or type out (shorthand, notes, or other abbreviated forms) into ordinary characters or full sentences.
        synonyms: write out, write down, copy down, put in writing, put on paper, render More


      • arrange (a piece of music) for a different instrument, voice, or group of these.
        "his largest early work was transcribed for organ"
    Where is the issue when it comes to auditing? A document (procedure, for example) is a communication of controls etc. Carrying out the process/controls is the "work" ISO 9001 refers to when it states "Auditors shall not audit their own work". The work of authoring, writing, typing, printing, copying etc the document has nothing to do with this. Your colleague might need to rethink their position.
     
    Candi1024 and PaulJSmith like this.
  7. pkfraser

    pkfraser Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Location:
    Aberdeen Scotland
    ChrisB

    If you photocopied the document rather than transcribing it, would the photocopier become the author? Tell your colleague not to be daft!
     
  8. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    2,062
    Likes Received:
    1,073
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    In the "Rust Belt"
    I'd offer some "spin" on this that, as an auditor, doing the work of transcribing a document actually helps you to become more familiar with it and hence it becomes excellent preparation FOR the audit. Having gone through ISO 9001:2015, IATF 16949 and AS 9100 D in such a manner (preparing training materials) I can vouch for the fact that I know the words on the page a LOT better!
     
  9. normzone

    normzone Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    27
    So if I set the type on an old fashioned printing press and made some books in that manner, I'd be the author?

    Our process documents have a field for author and reviewer. Depending on the point I'm making, and the responsibility I'm asserting/assigning, I may put my name in either one of those fields after I've interviewed somebody and turned their story into process documentation.

    I can still audit that process - I'm not auditing the document, but how the work gets done, which is hopefully in accordance with the document.
     

Share This Page