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Auditing the Internal Audit Process 8.2.2

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2008 - Quality Management Systems' started by K.E.H, Nov 9, 2015.

  1. K.E.H

    K.E.H New Member

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    Hi,
    Internal audit team cannot audit the internal audit process "The selection of auditors...Auditors shall not audit their own work." We currently have the management team audit the requirement for this process.
    My question, is anyone aware of a better way to internally audit this process?
    Thank you
     
  2. MCW8888

    MCW8888 Well-Known Member

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    Have one Management audit your Internal Audit monitoring according to your procedure for Internal Auditing and according to the planned arrangement. Does the Internal audit meet the requirement of ISO9001. Effectiveness is determined by following up the open items from previous audits to see if the problems do not recur.
     
  3. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    You may wish to revisit the actual requirement for internal audits. It doesn't say the audit "team" at all. As long as, during the audit of the internal audit requirements, an auditor doesn't end up auditing their own work you're OK. If you elect to do audits with a team, you might want to change that. It sounds like you're doing one (or a few) BIG scope audits, which isn't effective in all cases.
     
    Jennifer Kirley likes this.
  4. K.E.H

    K.E.H New Member

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    Thank you for your help.
     
  5. Andy Nichols

    Andy Nichols Moderator Staff Member

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    What will you being differently from your current process?
     
  6. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    The intent of ISO 9001 is to ensure objectivity and impartiality of the audit process. I believe the 2008 version was a bit "prescriptive" when it added in clause 8.2.2 that "Auditors shall not audit their own work". I always regard the ISO 9001 standard as a standard that tells an organization "WHAT to do" and not "HOW to do it". In the 2015 version this "prescriptive" statement is appropriately omitted. So as long as you can establish that the assigned auditor that audited the internal audit is impartial and objective there should be no problem. One way of doing this is by assigning a member of the audit team to audit the team leader and check whether the procedure was actually implemented. Questions like: did he prepare an audit plan or program?, were audits implemented as planned?, were auditees notified prior to audit?, did the other auditors covered the relevant audit criteria?, are NCs raised valid?, do the results of the audit reported to relevant management or covered as input to management review?
     
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  7. K.E.H

    K.E.H New Member

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    Thank you Tony
     

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