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"Actions" as process I/O

Discussion in 'ISO 9001:2015 - Quality Management Systems' started by John Mann, May 20, 2016.

  1. John Mann

    John Mann New Member

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    As part of upgrading from the 2008 to the 2015 standard I am looking at determining process inputs and outputs (4.4.1a). We didn't define these previously.My approach was to get each process owner to say what their inputs and outputs were.

    The boss has now decided he is going to bypass his Quality Manager and define them all himself. He has split the inputs and outputs into "documents" (I would have preferred "information"); "physical" and "actions". I'm really not happy with "actions" as process inputs and outputs. Surely if there is an action then that is a process in itself? Do I have a valid view here?
     
  2. pkfraser

    pkfraser Active Member

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    John

    Agreed!
     
  3. Steve Barkley

    Steve Barkley New Member

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    I'm with you 100%. Physical items such as raw materials and information (written or verbal) such as purchase orders, training, schedules, ect. are inputs and outputs can be much the same but also include records, non-conforming parts, finished goods, and so on. Actions are done during the process to transform an input into an output.
     
  4. tony s

    tony s Well-Known Member

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    Looking at this illustration can provide us a better appreciation of what can be considered as process inputs or outputs.
    upload_2016-5-20_21-37-51.png
     
  5. Bev D

    Bev D Moderator Staff Member

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    well he is your boss.
    He seems to not understand how the "input - process - output" diagram is supposed to work, OR he has a a different way of expressing it to you?
    perhaps if you asked some clarifying questions of him his view will become and clear and it might open a pathway for you to 'match' his verbiage and vision to the generally accepted form...
     
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  6. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

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    And maybe he is on to something? No harm is looking at it differently. He might actually have a better approach than that which is generally accepted.
     
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  7. Qualmx

    Qualmx Well-Known Member

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    Try sipoc diagrams is a very useful tool when we try to see one process.
    S means supplier, i input, p process,o output and client.
    Hope thia helps
     
  8. pkfraser

    pkfraser Active Member

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    What a refreshingly constructive suggestion!
    The ISO fixation (in its definition and Notes) with "inputs" and "outputs" (fortunately now without a "transformation", but only for technical reasons, apparently) ignores the concept of a "trigger" (why does a process start?), of an "objective" (what are the activities trying to achieve?), of "resources" (what do you need to be able to carry out the process?), of "outcomes" (what impact might the actions have, now and in the future?). It also fails to recognise the difference between "put in" and "take in" (most "inputs" are in fact taken in, and so aren't input). In the same way, many so-called "outputs" come out inadvertently.
     
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  9. MCW8888

    MCW8888 Well-Known Member

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    First identify your processes and how they are interrelated to each other. My suggestion is for you to create a SIPOC.
     

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